[Zope] Fourth request for help - Win2K+Zope

[Tres Seaver]

Michael Simcich <msimcich@accesstools.com> wrote:
> 
> Hi Tres -
> 
> Everything you've said makes sense. There is no compare between what DC
> offers and what MS offers. DC says here is the product for free and we'll
> more or less be available to help you with quirks. MS sells you the product
> and that's the end of the story. I didn't intent to start howling about DC,
> they've done something significant for all of us by making Zope available. I
> *was* very frustrated with the fact that there didn't seem to be any
> recourse to a dead zope install, and that this didn't seem to be very
> important to anyone.
> 
> > Don't misread DC -- they _do_ have an interest in supporting Zope on
> Win2K;
> > what they don't have is the ability to troubleshoot your configuration in
> the
> > absence of more specific data than you provide, especially given reports
> from
> > other Win2K users that it "works for them" there.  Somebody (Martijn
> Pieters, I
> > think?) gave you pointers for stepping into the Zope startup process using
> the
> > Python debugger:
> 
> Martijn was kind enough to get me started with the debugger and it was fixed
> very simply. So they did have the ability to troubleshoot my config to some
> extent even though I couldn't tell them more than "nothing happens". I was
> hunting for exactly this sort of pointer - what else can I try if Zope won't
> turn over? It took me seven days to get that little tip, and a lot of wasted
> bandwidth on the list (sheesh, four posts on the same issue... but what else
> could I do?)

You did right, and I think it is a pity that it took the community that long to
come to your aid.  I know that _I_ misread one of the earlier posts and thought
you had resolved your problem, so I'm glad you reposted it.  I think I was
responding to the "I'm fed up" rant which also showed up this weekend, as much
as to your question, when talking about support.
 
> I don't think it's easy for most of the folks here to get how foreign Zope
> is to someone like myself. With Martijn's help I was able to start up the
> python debugger and interpret what it reported, but without that first
> pointer from Martijn I've no idea what to try. I seemed to mostly get advice
> to the effect that "Well it's Windoze what do you expect?" That... just
> doesn't help much.

Nope -- I have to use Windows products frequently;  I find Zope actually one of
the more pleasant things I use there now :) (Delphi and C++ Builder are the
other winning tools for me).

> The impression I get from having paid attention to this list for a couple of
> months is that it's composed of a very sophisticated and mature group. I
> know there has been some talk recently about going off half cocked, but
> compared to most lists I've had exposure to this list is already way ahead
> of the game. Hopefully I will find Zope a good fit and will eventually be
> able to contribute something useful myself.
> 
> Ah - what does "Hic sunt draconis" translate to? In context it's clear, but
> it would be fun to know the literal meaning <g>.

"Here be dragons" -- often seen in the otherwise blank areas of early explorers'
maps. :)

-- 
=========================================================
Tres Seaver         tseaver@palladion.com    713-523-6582
Palladion Software  http://www.palladion.com