[Zope] DTML?

[Shane Hathaway]

Chris Withers wrote:
> Okay, seriously, DTML is really hurting Zope's chances with a lot of
> people/companies. DTML should be easier than, say, creating a Form in
> Lotus Notes or writing a component in Mason. That requries, IMHO:
> 1. Clear definition of when it should be used.
> 2. A clean, concise syntax (like Python, DTML is more like Perl right
> now ;-)

The idea of making an XML compliant DTML has been tossed around
before.  It would remove the difference between <dtml-var x> and
<dtml-var "x">, since XML allows neither syntax. :-)

> 3. Good documentation (much easier to do if 1 and 2 are met...)

How about a "namespace inspector"?  It could provide an easy way to
find out what methods are available and the what the calling
conventions are (since it would interface with the help system), and it
could be automatically invoked when exceptions occur (under certain
conditions), making it a Zope debugging tool.

> I also think having Python Methods ship with Zope would really help...

I'm working on enhancing Python Methods right now.  I'm close to
getting them properly interfaced with DTML namespaces, so that DTML can
invoke Python Methods using simpler DTML syntax.

> There are niggles (like the rediculous id problem) which you can live
> with, but doing anything other than the really mundane in DTML means
> extreme hair loss right now, which is not good.

A curious paradox: newbies need it to be easier, but experienced users
need consistency.

> I wonder how many other people would agree with me: nevermind ZEO, or
> the PTK, ZPatterns or any new fancy functionality. Can we at least have
> a decent template language that doesn't confuse the hell out of newbies
> and oldbies alike...

It doesn't confuse Jim! ;-)

Shane