[Zope] Zope, Apache/NT, Reliability issues
Fabio Akita
akitaf@sti.com.br
Thu, 8 Jun 2000 19:25:15 -0300
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Hello
I am a developer and we are studying the possibility of adopting Zope as =
a production platform for our clients. Actually I use PHP, Perl and ASP =
as server-side "platforms" and I will also be testing WebObjects =
although I have to say that Zope interested me much more as a programmer =
^_^
Until now I have read lots of documentations, DTML looks good enough and =
I learned a lot about Python. But there are still some doubts that no =
online document could solve easily.
Concerning the installation I=B4d like to know if anyone knows (or knows =
some document that details about) the essencial differences between the =
many ways of installing Zope.
I=B4ve used the ZServer in stand alone mode and I also have implemented =
the easy Proxy Reverse trick in Apache. I will try FastCGI and PCGI as =
soon as possible, but I have some doubts now.
My test platform is a Windows NT 4 running Apache 1.3.12. The first =
doubt comes to the fact that I could not find the pcgi module for NT (I =
do not have any kind of C compiler, so I=B4ll be very glad if anyone =
know a binare version). So I=B4d like to know where can I find =
informations about installing Zope using PCGI in an NT Apache =
installation.
The second doubt: what exactly are the differences of running it in PCGI =
mode or in ZServer? I do understand the concept of forking a process and =
interfacing a web server and a process through a CGI interface as PCGI =
and I also understand the fact of the multithreading feature in ZServer. =
Basically it would mean that each connection request will fork a new =
Zope connection and then maintain it in some kind of a connection pool =
(as databases do)? Or will there be only one process running Zope and a =
queue of requests to access it? What are the performance impacts, what =
are the hardware (memory/CPU) impacts? Personally I do not like the =
concept of CGI but know nothing about the Persistent CGI concept.
And what about the method of "masquerading" the ZServer through Apache? =
I have read solutions using the Rewrite module and the Proxy module, but =
it actually means (roughly speaking) that if there are 10 requests made =
to Apache then it will make 10 requests to ZServer so, considering only =
the reliability issue of the server even if Apache can handle millions =
of requests per second, the ZServer would fall down much faster than =
that so I cannot see any advantage of using Apache in front of it. Of =
course I understand the other advantages of Apache as it=B4s many =
configuration options, robustness as a web server, etc, but can the =
ZServer stay up and running in pair with Apache? Maybe there=B4s any way =
to configure Apache to cache the pages -- as a Squid would -- so it can =
"filter" the requests and low the requests level that it will do to =
ZServer?
And what about it=B4s object oriented database? I also have some doubts =
about it. I worked a lot with relational databases as MS SQL and MySQL =
but never tried to study an OO approach to DB. How fast it is? How much =
requests can it handle without hanging, collapsing or corrupting data? I =
mean, anyone tried to do some study of a database that changes everytime =
and have queries everytime, I mean, searches in a database where it=B4s =
data changes constantly (searching a static database is much different =
than searching on a mutable one). Row level locking, transaction, =
consistency, etc, all these concepts apply here? Can it be substituted =
by a traditional relational database and have it=B4s contentes =
interfaced to "looks like" object oriented?
The reliability issue is important as I would=B4t like to have to write =
a cron to verify if the server is up and running and, if not, kill all =
of it=B4s processes and start all over again. It=B4s not professional, =
it=B4s just an ugly band-aid.=20
Actually the PCGI module for NT is not that important as I do prefer =
working with Apache on Linux but some of our clients prefer working on =
NT as much of it=B4s products are already up and running on NT, so Zope =
on NT would be the preferred option (is Zope+NT as stable as Zope+Linux, =
only talking about the web server robustness).
Well, these are my doubts for now.
Thanks for the attention. I hope we can do some interesting discussion.
[]=B4s
Fabio Akita - Developer
F/Nazca S&S / Adversiting
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I am a developer and we are studying =
the=20
possibility of adopting Zope as a production platform for our clients. =
Actually=20
I use PHP, Perl and ASP as server-side "platforms" and I will also be =
testing=20
WebObjects although I have to say that Zope interested me much more as a =
programmer ^_^</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Until now I have read lots of =
documentations, DTML=20
looks good enough and I learned a lot about Python. But there are still =
some=20
doubts that no online document could solve easily.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Concerning the installation I=B4d like =
to know if=20
anyone knows (or knows some document that details about) the essencial=20
differences between the many ways of installing Zope.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I=B4ve used the ZServer in stand alone =
mode and I=20
also have implemented the easy Proxy Reverse trick in Apache. I will try =
FastCGI=20
and PCGI as soon as possible, but I have some doubts now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>My test platform is a Windows NT 4 =
running Apache=20
1.3.12. The first doubt comes to the fact that I could not find the pcgi =
module=20
for NT (I do not have any kind of C compiler, so I=B4ll be very glad if =
anyone=20
know a binare version). So I=B4d like to know where can I find =
informations about=20
installing Zope using PCGI in an NT Apache installation.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The second doubt: what exactly are =
the=20
differences of running it in PCGI mode or in ZServer? I do understand =
the=20
concept of forking a process and interfacing a web server and a process =
through=20
a CGI interface as PCGI and I also understand the fact of the =
multithreading=20
feature in ZServer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Basically it would mean that each =
connection=20
request will fork a new Zope connection and then maintain it in some =
kind of a=20
connection pool (as databases do)? Or will there be only one process =
running=20
Zope and a queue of requests to access it? What are the performance =
impacts,=20
what are the hardware (memory/CPU) impacts? Personally I do not like the =
concept=20
of CGI but know nothing about the Persistent CGI concept.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And what about the method of =
"masquerading" the=20
ZServer through Apache? I have read solutions using the Rewrite module =
and the=20
Proxy module, but it actually means (roughly speaking) that if there are =
10=20
requests made to Apache then it will make 10 requests to ZServer =
so,=20
considering only the reliability issue of the server even if Apache can =
handle=20
millions of requests per second, the ZServer would fall down much faster =
than=20
that so I cannot see any advantage of using Apache in front of it. Of =
course I=20
understand the other advantages of Apache as it=B4s many configuration =
options,=20
robustness as a web server, etc, but can the ZServer stay up and running =
in pair=20
with Apache? Maybe there=B4s any way to configure Apache to cache the =
pages -- as=20
a Squid would -- so it can "filter" the requests and low the requests =
level that=20
it will do to ZServer?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>And what about it=B4s object oriented =
database? I=20
also have some doubts about it. I worked a lot with relational databases =
as MS=20
SQL and MySQL but never tried to study an OO approach to DB. How fast it =
is? How=20
much requests can it handle without hanging, collapsing or corrupting =
data? I=20
mean, anyone tried to do some study of a database that changes everytime =
and=20
have queries everytime, I mean, searches in a database where it=B4s data =
changes=20
constantly (searching a static database is much different than searching =
on a=20
mutable one). Row level locking, transaction, consistency, etc, all =
these=20
concepts apply here? Can it be substituted by a traditional relational =
database=20
and have it=B4s contentes interfaced to "looks like" object =
oriented?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The reliability issue is important as I =
would=B4t=20
like to have to write a cron to verify if the server is up and running =
and, if=20
not, kill all of it=B4s processes and start all over again. It=B4s not =
professional,=20
it=B4s just an ugly band-aid. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Actually the PCGI module for NT is not =
that=20
important as I do prefer working with Apache on Linux but some of our =
clients=20
prefer working on NT as much of it=B4s products are already up and =
running on NT,=20
so Zope on NT would be the preferred option (is Zope+NT as stable as =
Zope+Linux,=20
only talking about the web server robustness).</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Well, these are my doubts for =
now.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks for the attention. I hope we can =
do some=20
interesting discussion.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>[]=B4s</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Fabio Akita - Developer<BR>F/Nazca =
S&S /=20
Adversiting</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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