[Zope] Zope needs this (and Dynamo has it)

['Martijn Faassen']

Alexander Staubo wrote:
[snip]
> I find it ironic that JPython is even *slower* than CPython. Curious --
> is anybody using it for anything worthwhile?

I think I heard somewhere that it's now equal in speed to CPython, but 
I'm not sure. People use it to script Java components and such. It seems
to be reasonably popular for things like that in Java-land.

[snip explanation why open-source like collaboration is harder for languages]

It's hard for language *design*, yes, but it's less hard when you're doing
language implementation (for instance a faster one), and it's easier still
when you're writing libraries and such. And it does happen for language
design as well -- the Python static type design is currently being fleshed
out (in bursts) by the types-SIG (though of course Guido does final
approval about what goes into Python proper).

[type system prototypes for Python]
> Where?

Hm, I'm not entirely sure how to find it other than digging through the
types-SIG mailing list. Try something mid-january.

> The type system SIG has a funny intro: "Recently, the types SIG has come
> under attack for inactivity, and in response Paul Prescod has offered to
> guide the SIG towards accomplishing a single specific goal: to develop
> an optional static typing system for Python. The December 1999 archives
> of the SIG show the discussion that lead to this decision."
> 
> Reading this stuff now. It's interesting. I hope they get it right.
> Maybe I'll chip in.

You'll find some of my silly messages too. :) The types SIG came quite
a long way after Guido proposed closing it down for inactivity. It's a bit
more quiet now, I believe.

[snip discussion on Dylan]

[snip]
> > Hm, but in my experience Python has been shown to be plenty 
> > fast enough
> > for the majority of applications. You're probably right though, and I
> > agree completely that a faster Python would be very nice.
> 
> I have several apps where I would rather use Python, but where speed is
> so significant that I would either end up writing a lot of the code in
> C++ for speed (which is painful due to the lack of integration between
> the two languages -- Python classes can't inherit from stuff in the C++
> extension, for example).

There are various tools out there for Python which do offer this kind of
functionality, though, I think? Check at the vaults of parnassus sometime:
http://www.vex.net/parnassus

> I also have a database-centric Zope app that causing me headache. The
> ZODB is *way* too immature to replace a database right now -- fine for
> the kind of stuff that runs on zope.org, not for us. ream

Why not use a relational database? Is it too immature that way? 

Regards,

Martijn