[Zope] RE: [ZCommerce] RE: Philip leaves Arsdigita (was: Re:[Zope]kerberos ? + LDAP + ecommerce + ZEO replication etc)

[Michael R. Bernstein]

Chris McDonough wrote:
> 
> > Nevertheless, Paul is *still* trying to get someone to scratch his itch,
> > even if he's stopped projecting that onto me. Problem is that nobody
> > *can* even if they were willing. Until someone at DC is actually assigned
> > to take the minimum time needed to get up to speed on this there simply
> > isn't anything anyone *could* do to "make it easier".
> 
> I have a really super-rough time understanding this outlook.  Zope is a
> framework.  On top of it you can build whatever you like, including a
> complicated ecommerce application.  Why is it absolutely, unwaveringly,
> overwhelmingly necessary for *DC* specifically to be involved in an
> application-level project like a port of ACS' ecommerce module when it's not
> clear that it can generate any immediate revenue for us?

I think Albert's saying (forgive me for speaking for you if
I get this wrong) that no-one but DC can evaluate the
opportunity and make the decision if DC should do this work.

Of course, merely *evaluating* the opportunity is a lot of
work, and there are too many opportunities for DC to even
evaluate them all. If they tried, they would not have the
resources left to capitalize on any of them.

Albert also (in my opinion) seems to be confusing this type
of application level project with the type of infrastructure
that DC has to date concentrated on building into Zope.

the ZCommerce interest group probably did not gain momentum
because (like many projects) it was too ambitious at the
outset, and because (also like many projects) it lacked a
cohesive vision for what was to be accomplished. Attempts
merely to define the scope were bogged down in competing
visions. I'm pointing no fingers, as I was as guilty of
contributing to the confusion with 'wouldn't it be cool
if...' statements as anyone else. Nevertheless, some people
*did* do some work, and others did contribute suggestions
that eventually became features in one product or another.
So I would say that it has been successful and valuable, in
a way.

Since, to date, commerce has not been a large part of the
projects and consulting engagements that DC has been
involved in, it may be a good idea for DC to describe what
sort of consulting engagements it *has* been involved in. I
don't think that any of us in the Zope community begrudge DC
their success, and we'd like to be able to make more
informed suggestions, rather than shooting from the hip as
it were.

For that matter, what community contributed products or code
is DC using in their consulting work (if any)? When does
someone in the community really hit the mark and provide
something that is not just popular with other Zope
developers, but with the developers at DC as well?

That kind of feedback on application level work as well as
'core' work (such as Python Scripts nee Methods), can be
very important and valuable. Right now, I have no idea if
(for example) DC has ever installed Squishdot for a client,
much less any of a number of other projects such as
ZPatterns.

Anyway, that's my $0.02,

Michael Bernstein.