[Zope] RE: [ZCommerce] RE: Philip leaves Arsdigita (was:Re:[Zope]kerberos ? + LDAP + ecommerce + ZEO replication etc)

[Chris McDonough]

I've responded to Walter privately about this thread.  You are correct, and
I don't intend to post publically any more on this issue.  I am *not* an
"official DC spokesperson", as you note.

> You previously announced that you weren't speaking for DC and anything
> more you said would be just hot air. As I'm re-reading this, I've
> just noticed Walter, having responded. Instead of treating whatever
> you say as "hot air", he's treating you as some sort of spokesperson
> for DC and drawing the obvious conclusion. That's dumb - he should know
> you are just full of hot air, since you are at least honest enough
> to admit it when you bungle (that is sincere). So I don't have time
> to polish this up and am leaving the rest unedited in the hope of
> catching him before he unsubscribes. It's the aggro version which
> I usually leave for 24 hours before re-writing.
>
> I specifically asked for an "official" reply *not* to be given
immediately.
>
> Paul gave one immediately, half of which was bristling and the
> other half saying that I had a point. Last few messages I saw included
> him saying:
>
> "To tell the truth, I'm mad at myself for
> responding strongly, particularly as our position on this is weak.  The
> folks in zcommerce have been doing the work, not DC, so I didn't have
> much right to get torqued.  And besides, his idea has merit."
>
> I haven't (yet) seen messages from zcommerce developers saying they
> are pissed off. I have noticed one from someone associated with
> EMarket expressing interest in similar ideas as Walter about some
> things. That was also the situation a year ago when another one
> mentioned moving to ZPatterns to be able to support RDBMS access
> in response to a posting on OpenACS.
>
> Walter's given some answers and I haven't seen an "official" response
> yet. I got the impression Walter *was* waving some money around. He's
> certainly in an industry that needs exactly what's been talked about
> For a CTO with 30 years experience in a low tech services industry
> that doesn't usually have CTO's, he has a remarkably deep understanding
> of why. The dotcoms don't need DC's consulting services - they
> need a miracle. Sectors like where Walter's coming from do. You are
> talking to him like you don't even know he's one of your customers
> and want him to be one of your open source developers. Have you even
> looked up where he's coming from?
>
> It would be odd if Walter wasn't keen enough on getting the job done
> to help pay for it - and odd if he couldn't see possibilities of
> recovering the costs from others with similar needs. But he's
> obviously been doing some research and he *said* he wants to help
> pay for it while you are abusing him for not doing so, when I'm
> quite sure you really meant to be abusing me (which doesn't worry
> me in the least - at least you got it right - I am not offering
> to help pay for it).
>
> Now he's pissed off - and that doesn't help either.
>
> When starting off this thread I mentioned I'd be going on the warpath
> on the first anniversary of having raised the issue. That isn't until
> 6 June and I don't have time to get *really* pissed off until then.
> So give me a break, please.
>
> If I wanted to get pissed off I'd have got pissed off at being
> told to read Eric Raymond on what open source is about - but I
> managed to just ignore it. The only reason I can't just ignore
> you is because you insist on announcing what you believe I think.
>
> If occurs to me that you might be doing that with respect to DC
> too.
>
> If an "official decision" has been taken and you've been told to
> deliver the news the way you are, please say so. Otherwise, please
> take Walter's suggestion to let it go over the long weekend (and
> Walter, please take your own suggestion too). Sheesh I'm a
> *professional agitator* by trade - my role in this sort of thing
> is to beat CEO's around the head with clubs until they get angry
> enough to start looking for arguments to prove I'm wrong and they
> are right, after which I can just move on because they aren't stupid
> and know what to do when they can't come up with those arguments.
> It doesn't win friends, but it does influence people. I just don't
> have *time* to be telling junior staffers not to piss of the CTO
> of one of their customer's. So many heads to beat,... so little
> time (sigh ;-)
>