Fwd: Re: [Zope] beginner

[Chris McDonough]

How about http://serenade.4-am.com/DevGuide (the Zope Developer's Guide),
then?

;-)

BTW, serenade.4-am.com is not the "official" place for these books (The Zope
Book and the Developer's Guide), they're "officially" available via
Zope.org.  Eventually, serenade.4-am.com will go away as a resource for
these books.  I'm jus pointing out the commenting ability of "BackTalk" via
the book text, and that was the point of my last message.

Also, what is everybody's definition of "traditional web developer"?  Is
there such a beast?

----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Cranston-Cuebas" <Todd_Cranston-Cuebas@citysearch.com>
To: "Zope Main Mailist (E-mail)" <zope@zope.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Fwd: Re: [Zope] beginner


> I'm also new to Zope, but I agree that having "transitional" manuals would
> be helpful. I'd like to see one that shifts traditional web developers
into
> Zope by tackling the differences head on. I don't think that the Zope book
> http://serenade.4-am.com/ZopeBook actually does this. It certainly is
> helpful and provides a gradual introduction to Zope, but really what I
want
> to see is how things should best be done the Zope way.
>
> I think I would have been better off starting with chapter 12 of this same
> book ("Extending Zope"). This chapter introduces ZClasses and shows how to
> create a product that would allow for a web presentation, user entry
through
> the management interface, etc. For the longest time I couldn't "get" how I
> would do something as simple as create a recipe card file with Zope. Zope
is
> a total mind-shift from traditional web development/database tools so hit
it
> head on and show a complete development of a generic web site doing things
> entirely the Zope way.
>
> I found it hard to make the mental transition when looking at nothing but
> DTML since it looks like many of the other systems I've been familiar with
> (just another tagged based meta-language) but it's not. It's tied into
> Zope's incredible object database and management interface.
>
> Just my two cents...
>
> BTW: Don't get me wrong, this book was an absolute godsend!
>
> Todd
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Chris McDonough [mailto:chrism@digicool.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 10:26 AM
> To: Philippe Jadin; zope@zope.org
> Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Zope] beginner
>
>
> > > This multipurposing confuses the bejeezus out of people when they
first
> > > come to Zope, because there's no way a single set of docs could
possibly
> > > serve all of those audiences.  We'd need to write maybe four or five
> > > different sets of documentation to service all of these audiences.  We
> > > can't do this for financial reasons.
> >
> > What could be good however : have a "how to make the transition" guide
for
> > differents origins. Maybe ask some experienced zope users who were using
> > different tools before the discovered zope. Having for example a simple
> app
> > written in php and then with zope, idem for coldfusion and others... But
> > imho if you take the time to read and understand the zope book you get
all
> > of this and a lot more.
>
> Yes... unless you really want to do something very specific to a
particular
> system... like.. use regexes in Perl.  You'd need to search almost forever
> to figure out how to expose regex functionality in Zope without using an
> external method.  There are lots of other examples like this.  All we can
do
> is rely on the community and the maillist here.
>
> > something different :
> >
> > I had to search the php.net site for a particular function, and I found
> what
> > is so cool about this site : users can search any php function very
> easily,
> > and most important : *visitors can add comments and examples* to the
> > function explanation.
> >
> > This could be added to the zope docs imho. One folder per function, and
> let
> > the users add their own comments (guestbook like).
>
> How about http://serenade.4-am.com/ZopeBook?
>
> This Zope Book instance is going away, so don't get too carried away
adding
> comments... but if you like it, *please* let the Zope docs folks know that
> you'd like to get the Zope Book annotation/bugtracking system out of the
> SourceForge tracker and into this system by emailing docs@digicool.com .
>
> > something more different :
> >
> > why not add a guestbook-like system to every page of zope.org? This way
we
> > could read the experience of other users about the current page.
>
> This is the purpose of the CMF Discussion system (an example of which the
> above is *not*).
>
> - C
>
>
>
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