[Zope] ZPT: ready for prime time?

[jmr@computing.com]

We've been using ZPT for several months now.  All our new production
code is written with it; DTML is history.  We're pretty happy with the
results.  Our site is not a huge high volume thing, but I think that's
probably irrelevant.

dieter>       ZPT/XHTML				DTML
dieter>       
dieter>     modern approach		    in the future, probably only
dieter>     investment in the future	    used in niches
dieter> 
dieter>     in flux, probably unstable	    stable, we know its strengthes/weaknesses

Although there are periodically changes (and new features) introduced,
(so yes, "in flux" is reasonably accurate), I would not say it's
unstable.  

dieter>     maybe, missing features
dieter>     (e.g. batching)

There are some "shortcomings", yes.  However, when they surface, they
frequently get a solution implemented quickly.  Hats off to Evan and
team for being among the most responsive developers I've ever dealt
with.  To put it in perspective, none of the shortcomings I'm aware of
have approached the severity of <dtml-var "_.['sequence-item']">, or
whatever the twisted syntax is...

dieter> 
dieter>     poor documentation		    quite well documented by now
dieter>     e.g. loop variables,
dieter>     TALES variables

If you look at the specs in the ZPT wiki, you find that the
documentation is kept pretty much up-to-date.  No, it's not in the
same place or format that the rest of the docs are... and that would
be nice -- but most of it *is* written, IMHO.

dieter> What are your experiences?
dieter> What do you think?

I find it much more productive than DTML.  I've been around zope for
about 2 years, so I'm not exactly a newbie.  However, the rest of my
team is.  Our graphic designer is not a programmer, and the fact that
he can work on pages full of dynamic content and not trample on the
code is a wonderful thing.  (ZPT's "prototype" concept means that he
can see examples of the data in the editor -- something for which DTML
has no analog.)

Pages end up much cleaner, IMHO.  I expect it to be much more
maintainable when we get down the road a bit and we've forgotten the
details.  Part of that is due to the fact that it's easy to pop in and
out of python scripts while doing a page.  (Which is of course also
possible in DTML-land; it's just a little less clear when and how to
do it.)

From: "Joachim Werner" <joe@iuveno-net.de>

joe> I think ZPT work very well if you usually have a relatively simple page
joe> layout (like having a standard header and footer). I am not yet sure how it
joe> can work with more dynamic sites, like most of ours. We usually have not
joe> just a header/footer, but dynamic components for navigation, news boxes,
joe> etc. In the Kontentor framework, even the actual web content is built
joe> dynamically from header, text block, and image objects. ZPT's approach might
joe> not work for those sites.

I'm not familiar with Kontentor.  However, I don't understand the
limitation you are alluding to.  ZPT can do all that with ease.