[Zope] Considerations using Zope

[ken]

I'd echo Paul's comment under question #7 and copy it under question #4.  
That is to say, the documentation leaves something to be desired, 
especially for those wishing to run zope with apache and postgresql (the 
way, I've been told, to implement a robust server).

My $0.02,
ken

Paul Winkler at 08:17 (UTC-0800) on Mon, 16 Dec 2002 said:

= On Mon, Dec 16, 2002 at 03:38:44PM +0100, Dani?l Hooymans wrote:
= > 1. Object Orientation
= >  
= > In which ways is the language object oriented en which things are missing from the language.
= 
= python is fully object-oriented... i'll leave the details to the 
= language lawyers. We don't really have interfaces currently.
= 
= > 2. Server and client objects.
= >  
= > To what extend is it possible to define and use client side objects aside from server components. e.g. Possibility to include/use special tags which automagically instantiate the correct custom control objects.
= 
= there's no automagic for this in zope that I know of.
=   
= > 3. Framework
= >  
= > How diverse is the default library of Objects and methods. (Guess this is more a python thing besides the use of products)
= 
= well, you can't discount the huge number of Products available...
= aside from that, the python standard library is excellent, after 3-4
= years I'm still finding new stuff there.
= 
= if that's not enough, there's all the nice powerful 3rd-party libs
= like mxDateTime, PIL, NumPy, and Reportlab, all the other stuff
= at the Vaults of Parnassus, and nice resources 
= like the ASPN cookbook.
= 
= > 4. Support
= >  
= > How / howfar is the development platform used by developers.
= > Is there a good knowledge base / FAQ's available.
= > Are there good / many  newsgroups available... ( Hmmmm, depend on response to this message  ;-) ) 
= 
= this list is excellent, #zope on irc is good, there are also lists for
= more specific sub-communities (plone, tal, etc.)
= 
= > 5. 3th party support
= >  
= > Are there extentional development tools available.
= 
= "extentional"? hmm.  well there are tools to help zope
= work with other tools - e.g. ExternalEditor, and
= various hacks for dealing with CVS.
= 
= 
= > What kind of engines are available. ( python / zope )
= 
= engines?
= 
= > Are extra components available. If so, which. ( yeah yeah, Zope product database is one)
= 
= some big ones: CMF, Plone, Nuxeo CPS ...
= too many others to mention.
= 
= > 6. Cost
= >  
= > What do the essential development tools cost.
= > What are the costs to commercially use the development platform.
= 
= NOTHING!
=   
= > 7. Userfriendly
= >  
= > How good is the development platform.
= > Are all tools needed available.
= > Is the platform intuitive to use.
= 
= the famous zope learning curve is an issue ...
= it's quite easy to get through the tutorial and
= start putting things together. It can take months
= or years to grok the advanced stuff. Then you
= can do anything. :) Partly it's a documentation problem.
=   
= > 8. Distribution
= >  
= > What is needed to host a website using the platform. (no need to answer.. zope ??)
= 
= yes, but zserver is not generally considered robust enough for
= deploying "bare" on the internet. It is normal to put it behind something -  
= apache, squid...
=   
= > 9. XML Support
= >  
= > Which tools are available.
= 
= plenty of stuff in the python standard lib.
= also zope supports xmlrpc.
=   
= > 10. Developer value
= >  
= > What is the value of a developer having good knowledge of the platform on the jobmarket.
= 
= well, there don't seem to be so many zope jobs around... but
= there are correspondingly fewer zope developers to fill them.
= It can be hard to find the right opportunity. But e.g.
= at my current job I was hired solely because of my zope experience.
=   
= > [11]. What are other pros/cons using Zope / Python as development platform.
= > ==================================
= 
= integration with filesystem devel. tools (revision control etc.)
= is still problematic.
= 
= scalability of zope is very cool. With ZEO and the various
= cacheing strategies, you can serve a LOT of requests and keep building
= up with very little work.
= 
=