[Zope] Data-Aware Folder

[Igor Elbert]

-----Original Message-----
From: Roché Compaan [mailto:roche@upfrontsystems.co.za]
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 8:59 AM
To: Igor Elbert; Chris Withers
Cc: zope@zope.org
Subject: RE: [Zope] Data-Aware Folder


Roché Compaan wrote:
> > Igor Elbert wrote:
> > > I looked at ZPatterns and TransWarp before and did not like them.
> > ZPatterns
> > > seem too heavy for the outcome. IMHO, the concept is good -
> > implementation
> > > is convoluted. TransWarp is not ready. If it is going to be
> > anything like
> > > ZPatterns, by the time the Zope community groks it, the package
creators
> > > will abandon it and move to something else.
>
> Before you give up on ZPatterns completely, look at Steve Spicklemire's
> examples:
>
> http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/DumbZPatternsExample
> http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/SQLZPatternsExample1
> http://www.zope.org/Members/sspickle/SQLZPatternsExample2

I have looked at them, in fact these examples turned me off from ZPatterns.
I read their detailed description in Steve's book ("Zope: WAD&CM") and
thought that I am missing something. Then I installed them and realized that
I got it right. I just do not like the approach.
In the introduction to ZPatterns Steve writes about aspects of a
high-quality code:
1.simplicity
2.elegance
3.right choices of what to include into implementation
4.limited scope of object's responsibility

I agree with all four but (in my eyes) ZPatterns do not fit any of the above
criteria. It would be interesting to cleanly rewrite the
DumbZPatternsExample without ZPatterns and compare. I also wonder if
TransWarp/PEAK is mature enough to implement the intricate relationships
between Doers, Deliverables, and ToDos. It should be - TransWarp mailing
list is busy with selecting the package name and logo. ;)

> We've been using ZPatterns extensively in a number of apps and it has
> given us a lot of joy.  It is the best framework Zope _currently_ has
> for data abstraction and it is really not that complicated - it's just
> missing some documentation.  In the available docs to much is said about
> what it can do for you and very little about how to do the simple things
> - one just have to know what pieces to wire together. (Maybe I need to
> write a howto if anybody is interested)
> We have extended ZPatterns in a number a ways to make life really really
easy ...............
> We'll probably release the above in a week or two if there's any
> interest ;-)

I agree that ZPatterns is the "best framework Zope _currently_ has for data
abstraction". As a new Zope user I think it's pretty sad. Maybe I am wrong -
it would be great to see your add-ons (esp. skinnable solution) and maybe
some better examples of ZPatterns usage.

Best regards,
Igor