[Zope] mixing python and DTML is hellish!

[kosh@aesaeion.com]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002, Chris Withers wrote:

> kosh@aesaeion.com wrote:
> >
> > > - A site with DTMLed templates tend to be a big bunch of templates an=
d ZPT
> > > seems to be fewer with many more Python Script objects
> >
> > That is because DTML is often abused that is not an inherent flaw in DT=
ML.
>
> Au contr=E9re, that is DTML's BIGGEST inherent flaw. You can write nice D=
TML, if you try
> pretty damn hard, but it's soooooo easy to get into foot shooting land.

You can write bad python pretty easily also but that is not a flaw of
python. Many people have been encouraged to write bad DTML from lots of
sources on zope.org. Even the zope book has had some pretty bad examples
which does not help the issues.

>
> > Dreamweaver and that kind of editing doesn't matter to me at all since
> > neither we or any of our customers use that.
>
> But that doesn't mean other people don't use it. I didn't like the idea o=
f Dreamweaver
> until I started using it with WebDrive over WebDAV. Now I'm a convert ;-)
>

Well I don't run a windows OS and do all my devel on linux. With KDE 3.0
webdav will be transparent across any kde app so I will probably use
webdav more but I will still use it with DTML.

> > Why do you think ZPT is longer laster or more scalable?
>
> It's gonna be supported longer, it was better designed for the task, etc.=
 I could go on
> but you won't believe me anyway and I'm close enough to RSI-land anyway..=
=2E

I doubt support for DTML can be pulled for a good while. Talk to TheJester
he has some very good arguments for why DTML needs to stay around. It has
been discussed a fair bit on #zope and the channel is fairly well divided.
I think ZPT was designed for a task of allowing web designers to work on
stuff and insulate them from the code. The problem I see is that it took
so long to get python script in zope. It encouraged people to put lots of
logic in DTML since external methods are a pain by comparison. If examples
where updated that seperatd the logic into python scripts and the
presentation in DTML it would work well.