[Zope] Re: Java re-invents DTML :-)

[Michael Lewis]

On Tue, 2003-02-18 at 16:37, J Cameron Cooper wrote:
> >
> >
> >>DTML just doesn't scale
> >>to non-techies or content people who are talented at HTML, but not
> >>'programming.' 
> >>    
> >>
> >Being exactly what you are referring to, ie: someone who knows html, but
> >not programming, I have to disagree.  I tried Zope initially BECAUSE of
> >it's tag based scripting language.  I found it very easy to learn, and
> >granted, I have encountered some syntax issues that were a problem for a
> >while, but searching on zope.org and asking for direction from list
> >members, everything has worked out just fine.  I constructed 26 virtual
> >sites with Zope and DTML.  I have also looked at ZPT and found it rather
> >confusing.  I guess maybe it's just the way I'm wired or how I process
> >information, in any case, since we're not all the same, I feel that
> >continuing to offer both solutions would be the most appropriate course.
> >
> You're right: if you have good control over all the people working on 
> your site (i.e. by yourself, with other of the  Zope-savvy) either 
> templating language can work fine. DTML, being straightforward, might 
> even be easier (depending on if you've been trained to think XMLishly or 
> not.) Note of course that Page Templates *look* a lot more obscure than 
> they actually are.

You may be right here.  I don't have a lot of others working on this,
except for my wife who does all of the content and she doesn't even know
html.  She has no problem though and it only took about 30 seconds to
explain the dtml headers and footers for the paragraphs and page headers
that appears in the objects containing her content.  

> 
> But throw in a couple designers with WYSIWYG editors and all hell's out 
> for noon with DTML, so far as round-tripping your design is concerned. 
> If that'll never happen, don't worry about it; if it might, or will, 
> think very hard. And test the likely tools.

This is something I've been wondering about.  I've done all of the
html/dtml with NEdit and have been trying out Quanta Gold.  I also do
all of my work on Linux.  I don't know what a WYSIWYG editor looks
like.  Is this actually more of Windows vs Linux issue as Dreamweaver
and most of these style editors are specific to Windows?

I don't have any problems with either NEdit or Quanta Gold, both allow
syntax highlighting for dtml.

> 
> There are people who think best in both DTML and ZPT modes, and I don't 
> think it's a bad thing to have both lying around, so long as it is clear 
> that "best practice" involves Page Templates (which I think it does), 
> and the reasons for that are explained.

I really don't care which wins the title for "best practice" as long as
I can continue to use dtml.  I applaud your suggetion to "have both
tools laying around."  I think that is what all of us who prefer dtml
have been saying since the start of this thread.

Thanks.

Michael
> 
>        --jcc
> 
> 
> 
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-- 
Michael Lewis <michael@nichestaffing.com>
NicheStaffing.com