[Zope] Structured text is inconvenient esp. w BackTalk
Chris McDonough
chrism@zope.com
26 Feb 2003 16:28:06 -0500
I think this is an argument for you to not use BackTalk, unfortunately.
For better or worse, it only knows about structured text. In practice
STX is not really "compatible" with most word processors unless you work
very hard to teach the user and/or word processor to constrain the
input, which is of course impractical when you're dealing with
nontechnical users and gargantuan office suites.
- C
On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 14:54, Asad Quraishi wrote:
> Thanks Chris,
>
> The reason I am trying to use OO vs. something like emacs is that as we
> propose the use of Zope/Plone to our clients we want to offer them a
> solution which they will understand in the context of a world of word
> processors. It is difficult for someone to convert their word
> processor-based training manuals, for example, into a BackTalk book
> based on how structured text works. I don't mind emacs but clients
> won't feel quite as comfortable.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
>
> Chris McDonough wrote:
>
> >Structured text has some well-known idiosyncrasies. One of these is
> >that a body paragraph is defined as a block of lines followed by a
> >carriage return where each line is indented to the same number of
> >characters. Another is that a "heading" is defined as a single line of
> >text followed by a carriage return and a further-indented block of
> >text. Your examples show that you've created something that you think
> >is a body paragraph, although structured text rules consider it a
> >heading because it has no line breaks. Structured text has these
> >idiosyncrasies because one of its tenets is that its source should be as
> >"human-readable" as its rendering.
> >
> >For an example of "correct" structured text formatting, see
> >http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/ScriptingZope.stx/document_src (and its rendering at http://www.zope.org/Documentation/Books/ZopeBook/2_6Edition/ScriptingZope.stx).
> >
> >You're not doing anything wrong, really, but BackTalk does make the
> >assumption that you are willing to author your content in structured
> >text (this is mentioned prominently in the docs). If you step outside
> >the bounds of structured text, your formatting will suffer, as you've
> >found out. I'd suggest using an indent-aware text editor instead of
> >OpenOffice. I use emacs in "indented-text-mode" via External Editor.
> >BackTalk can also create PDFs, so if you're comfortable with editing
> >like this, you can deliver PDFs to your customer instead of .doc files.
> >On the other hand, if structured text is hamstringing you, you might
> >want to consider using something other than BackTalk, because it's
> >nontrivial to teach it to use an input format different than structured
> >text.
> >
> >On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 10:49, Asad Quraishi wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Here's the application:
> >>
> >>We have Zope and Plone installed and working for some months. We also
> >>installed BackTalk and CMFBackTalk in order to publish docs with inline
> >>comments in Plone. Works but there must be a better way. Let me explain:
> >>
> >>We create our documents in OpenOffice (OO) and then cut and paste them
> >>into stx docs. This works fine. However to use stx you have to indent
> >>each heading/content level. I can do this in a paragraph indent
> >>scenario like this with a BackTalk comment example:
> >>--------
> >>This is a Heading
> >>
> >> This paragraph has the first line indented but all of the other
> >>lines will wrap
> >>over to start flush with the margine. This is how it should work so
> >>that I can
> >>cut my content after commenting and paste in back in my OO doc. It also
> >>turns 'This is a Heading' into a heading. I can continue with first
> >>line indents in
> >>order to generate different heading levels.<p>
> >>
> >> % this is a comment
> >>--------
> >>
> >>When I do this, first of all I don't get a comment icon unless I break
> >>the rules (i.e. no inline html) and enter a <p> at the end of the
> >>paragraph where I want it. However this creates another problem. Once
> >>the comment is entered, since it is indented it makes the paragraph
> >>above it a heading. It also removes the comment icon once a comment is
> >>entered.
> >>
> >>However if I do this:
> >>------------
> >>This is a Heading
> >>
> >> The paragraph following is created by indenting the entire
> >>paragraph / and
> >> having to enter CR's at the end of each line. Boy this makes it a
> >>pain to
> >> enter the text into word processor afterwards.
> >>
> >> % the comment is indented again but doesn't turn the above paragraph
> >> into a heading
> >>-----------
> >>
> >>This works. The paragraph above the comment doesn't become a heading
> >>and the comment icon remains meaning I can enter as many comments for
> >>one paragraph as I like. This really sucks when I want to paste it back
> >>into OO.
> >>
> >>What am I doing wrong? Is our process wrong? i.e. "create doc in OO ->
> >>copy to stx -> comment with BackTalk --> copy back to OO for formatting
> >>and delivery to client as .doc"
> >>
> >>Thanks.
> >>
> >>- Asad
> >>
> >>
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> >
> >
> >
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>
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