[Zope] Zope reference documentation?

[Dylan Reinhardt]

At 12:27 PM 1/15/2003, you wrote:
>Where is the basic Zope documentation?  Don't say "The Zope Book" because 
>that jumps from too-basic to extremely complex within one paragraph, and 
>it is missing a comprehensive object.method reference with syntax and 
>examples.  There is a need for two Zope books - one to put the screenshots 
>in (a programmer's reference doesn't need screenshots), for absolute 
>beginners, and one programmer's / scripting reference with objects, 
>methods, syntax, and examples.  Maybe even three books, the last being the 
>high-level object-oriented architectural python-related stuff that most 
>people don't need to know to write scripts.


You're right that there is no single source of information available on 
Zope that takes you through step-by-step.  This may change some day, but is 
the state of things at the moment.  It's certainly no worse in this respect 
that some other projects I could mention and far better than others.  Ever 
tried to read the official documentation for Sendmail?

The upside is that there are lot of very knowledgeable, helpful people 
available who will gladly share the benefits of years spent wrestling with 
this system.  If you want an example of something, you need only 
ask.  Heck, we'll *race* each other to give a useful answer.

That may not be as convenient as having full documentation on your 
bookshelf, but it's open source.  Everyone here is trying to be helpful 
*while doing their regular work*.


><flame>
>Is it the intention of Zope Corporation to limit the use of Zope, by
>keeping easily understood and useful documentation away from the masses?

That's a pretty ungenerous allegation.  How much did you pay Zope Corp for 
the ability to use this amazing software?  They make a sincere effort to 
support us and ask very little in return.  This isn't Microsoft we're 
talking about here. :-)


>This is my second or third attempt at learning Zope (without knowing 
>Python - BTW, is that a prerequisite?)

I'd say it is, though others may disagree.  If you know *any* other 
language well, you can pick up Python in a day.  If you've never programmed 
before, Python might take a whole week to learn.  And it pays off too: the 
real power of Zope lies not in learning to use DTML but in extending Zope 
with your own objects.

So no, it's not required, but it *is* a major difference between just 
getting by and actually understanding what's going on.

>How people have learned Zope thus far with the documentation available is 
>beyond me.

The same way you learn how to use any open source product:

1. Download the product
2. Read the available documentation
3. Curse the paucity of good documentation
4. Start putting together trivial projects or examples
5. Ask questions of more experienced users
6. Curse the docs some more
7. Attempt a nontrivial project
8. Ask more questions
9. Break down and read the source
10. Gain enlightenment

Seems like you're on step 3.  :-)

Please proceed to step 4 and we'll be happy to help you at step 5 and may 
even commiserate with you at step 6.

HTH,

Dylan