[Zope] RE: Re: Disgraceful

[Garito]

Chris McDonough wrote:

>On Fri, 2004-09-24 at 18:28, Michael R. Bernstein wrote:
>
>  
>
>>You typed it in wrong. If you click the URL I provided above, Google
>>searches for 'zope sessions'. You obviously searched for 'zope+sessions'.
>>Plus signs in URLs are spaces.
>>    
>>
>
>FWIW, when I click on the provided URL I don't see the Session chapter
>of the Zope book as any direct result until the 27th link.  And it's the
>one at ZopeWiki.org, which isn't really "canonical".  I find this
>strange, given that Google is typically so good at this kind of thing
>and given that you apparently see different results.
>
>Regardless, I can sympathize with both sides of this argument.  I have
>been on both sides in the past.  IMO:
>
>- the questioner should try to provide a roundup of the things
>  he has already tried and might try soon ("I tried X, I tried Y,
>  neither of them worked, I am considering doing Z, is that a good
>  idea?" and so forth.)
>  
>

Completely AMEN!

>- when a questioner gets a response that isn't satisfactory and
>  feels compelled to reask, he should state exactly why the original
>  response was unsatisfactory.  "That doesn't seem right" is not
>  a good explanation of why something is unsatisfactory.  A better
>  one would be "that doesn't work because it causes X...".
>
>- if a responder doesn't feel like he has to provide a detailed
>  answer because it's an RTFM question, it would be nice of him to
>  give a URL or another detailed description of where in TFM
>  to look.  If he doesn't have the time to do this, he might
>  consider not responding at all.  OTOH, sometime the slightest
>  clues are useful, so it's somewhat of a judgment call.
>  
>
This point and the above one could be a little difficult (don't forget 
some people here don't speak english as native languaje, for example 
myself: I'm spanish)

>- a responder should be courteous and not harsh.  This is just
>  normal human interaction.  Being smart about a subject does not
>  itself give you a license to be discourteous to others.  OTOH, IT
>  people in general have a somewhat well-deserved reputation as
>  being obstreporous; this is mostly because (like the Dutch ;-)
>  they typically lack tact.  This comes across on maillists as well
>  as in real life.  Most of the time it's not malicious, it's just
>  more efficient than actually taking the time to be courteous.
>  Germans seem to exhibit this behavior more frequently than other
>  contributors. ;-)  If you understand this, you can usually get
>  along quite well with them.
>  
>
Completely agree again. This is not a negotiation, this is people 
helping others

>- C
>
>  
>
>>>The point is to say where to find the information is "obvious" is
>>>clearly subjective.
>>>      
>>>
>>I think searching Google for 'zope sessions' is reasonably objective.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>>I think you need to read 'How to ask questions the smart way':
>>>>http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>I'm curious, what part specifically did Asad not follow?
>>>      
>>>
>>>From the 'Before you ask' section:
>>
>>  "Before asking a technical question by email, or in a newsgroup,
>>   or on a website chat board, do the following:
>>
>>   1. Try to find an answer by searching the Web.
>>   2. Try to find an answer by reading the manual.
>>   3. [snip]"
>>
>>    
>>
>>>By the way, did you happen to see the part about how to answer them?
>>>There is a lot of good stuff there like: [snip]
>>>      
>>>
>>Sure, I've read that too. Doesn't really apply here as he *got* a good
>>answer to his first question, then proceeded to ask further questions that
>>he could have found the answers to himself with little effort, at which
>>point I'm not inclined to insist that further courtesies (and they *are*
>>courtesies, not an entitlement) be extended. Being polite as you waste
>>other people's time doesn't earn you any points.
>>
>>So he got a 'Read the API' answer (not even remotely a flame), which
>>elicited a 'nicely done' comment from Jonathan, prompting a *very* rude
>>response from Asad, after which Andreas gave a polite rejoinder, at which
>>point you started jumping down people's throats for not spoon-feeding him
>>the answer he wanted.
>>
>>Do you *want* the remaining experts to stop frequenting the general Zope
>>list?
>>
>>-- Michael Bernstein
>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>Zope maillist  -  Zope at zope.org
>>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
>>**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
>>(Related lists - 
>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
>> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
>>
>>    
>>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Zope maillist  -  Zope at zope.org
>http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope
>**   No cross posts or HTML encoding!  **
>(Related lists - 
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce
> http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
>  
>