[Zope] Does anyone care whether we deprecate ZClasses?

[Jonathan Cyr]

Thank You for giving me a timeframe for this stuff.  4 to 6 years is 
indeed a long time.  That would, in effect triple the lifespan of my 
project, and be far more reasonable.

It was the "yeah, dump it today" remarks that set me off.  These remarks 
are shortsighted at best, and harmful to Zope's PR at worst.

Thanks for the response, I will contribute where I can.

-Jon







Dieter Maurer wrote:

>Jonathan Cyr wrote at 2005-4-6 16:06 -0400:
>  
>
>>... just show me how under-represented that beginner and intermediate 
>>Zope developers use this list... and then I think, perhaps there aren't 
>>any, just me and a few others... and if that's the case, Zope's screwed, 
>>and the horse I rode in on.
>>    
>>
>
>Do not worry too much!
>
>Jim proposed to keep ZClasses alive until (at least) Zope 2.10.
>And he asks whether there is enough interest to keep them longer...
>
>If the Zope 2 releases progress in the same speed seen recently,
>then Zope 2.10 will come in 4 to 6 years. That's a lot of time.
>Of course, it is planned that future release cycles are much shorter
>(one release every 6 months) but I do not yet buy that this will
>indeed happen. Almost all releases were planned much earlier
>than they happened.
>
>
>And, we can keep ZClasses alive, at least until the next major
>"Persistency" shakeup (after Jim made them working again for
>the current "Persistency" shakeup) -- even when they are no longer
>in the core.
>
>
>In fact, I have had ten times more problems with Archetypes (which
>I use now) than with ZClasses (which I used formerly).
>It is true (and sad) that there are no unit tests for ZClasses
>but ZClasses just broke twice in the past across releases
>and the community quickly found
>workarounds. These fixes were found much faster than those
>for the security problems which were introduced from time to
>time into Zope through security shakeups -- despite the fact
>that there are unit tests for the security subsystem.
>
>
>Thus, the right approach (in my view) is that all users
>of ZClasses tell Jim, that ZClasses are used and interesting.
>ZClasses may nevertheless get deprecated but probably kept
>longer then Zope 2.10 unless they cause major problems.
>
>
>For new projects, you should investigate the new options.
>Product development will get much simpler with Zope3 technology
>(and its schemas and views). Currently, there is no TTW
>("Through The Web") development in Zope3 land, but that is planned.
>In about 2 to 4 years, we may have new ZClass like
>functionality implemented with Zope3 technology.
>And I am quite confident that the old ZClasses will live til
>then...
>
>
>  
>
>>And so here's the confession... "Hello, I'm Jon... I've used Zope for 2 
>>years, and I can't help others program high-level Python OOP 
>>tools/platform resources in a propriety web content management server.  
>>I only can support their efforts when the occasional mailing list 
>>opportunities present themselves."
>>    
>>
>
>That's fine. Continue with this support!
>
>
>Do not worry too much about ZClasses. They will stay
>for a significant time because Jim plans to take the next
>major hurdle (thank you, Jim!).
>After that, probably only small changes will
>be necessary -- as in the past. We, the ZClass users, can
>manage these minor changes -- as we did in the past.
>
>  
>
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