[Zope] DTML in Zope 2 vs Zope 3

[David H]

Greg Fischer wrote:

>I am just curious, why is DTML not good?  It does 9 out of 10 things I
>want quite easily.  From my perspective, I really dont want to learn
>new ways of doing things if this works.  I also have no desire to do
>templating.  I can see the need for it in a large development shop,but
>for me, a 1 guy operation, I have no desire to complicate things. 
>DTML works so easy for me.
>
>I do use Python scripts here and there for small and odd things that
>would be difficult or impossible to do in DTML, but like I said,
>that's maybe only 10% max of the functionality that I need to provide.
>(probably 5-6%) Having to move everything in Python is a hassle that I
>dont plan on doing for a few years.  I'll just keep using Zope 2.
>
>I'd also be curious to know from all you other developers, what
>percentage of tasks that you need to perform or functionality you need
>to provide can be provided simply with DTML?  Like for me, I can do
>quickly and easily do 90% of what I need in DTML.
>
>Is DTML really that much harder to use?
>
>I understand the whole idea of separating the logic and the
>presentation, and I guess, is that part of the reason why DTML is not
>as good?  But, for me, that separation is more complicated.  DTML is
>easier for me.  (partly because I know it)
>
>I dont know, DTML and the "everythings an object" concept in Zope are
>the very things that make Zope so attractive for a small time operator
>like me.  I hate to see them deprecated just because it doesnt work
>for the larger companies out there.  Of course, I may be totally
>ignorant about all this, huh?
>
>Anyway, starting to ramble...  Thanks for any thoughts.
>Greg
>
>On 5/26/05, Hugo Ramos <ramosh at gmail.com> wrote:
>  
>
>>Yellow,
>>
>>I have the same feeling... Python should be the primary language used
>>in Zope but let's not just cut the support on DTML leaving thousands
>>out there spinning around and having to go into Python as fast as they
>>can because DTML is not supported anymore.
>>Changes take time... Getting used to Python only in Zope takes time...
>>and I'm not so sure the employers out there are that kind allowing
>>everybody to take time making the move.
>>
>>
>>Regards
>>Hugo
>>
>>
>>On 5/26/05, David H <bluepaul at earthlink.net> wrote:
>>    
>>
>>>Hugo Ramos wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Yellow,
>>>>
>>>>I think because of lazy people like me that prefer to use DTML in a
>>>>fast way than go into a deep Python level to get the job done...
>>>>I know that, eventually, one of these days I'll have to move on to
>>>>Python only but until that day comes... DTML and a little bit of
>>>>Python where needed suits me fine! :-)
>>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>>Hugo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Hugo,
>>>I figured as a dtml "wiz" a few years ago.  Now I can't image doing
>>>w/out python scripts and suddenly DTML gives me a headache.  I do think
>>>that DTML deserves a Hall of Fame Award but its time to move on.
>>>
>>>David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>-
>>
>  
>
Greg,
I agree with you:  I would not convert existing code to ZPT unless a 
client asked me to.  I too, am a "one man shop"  - been doing it that 
way for like 14 years.

I just made the decision to use ZPT for all *new* projects.  I didn't 
like it much at the beginning but now I wouldnt do w/out it.  ZPT has a 
magic of its own, its amazing! Plus, it seems to do force the mind to 
think in ways compatible with the direction of web developement evolution. 

The problem with DTML is its too good for, well, its own good. :-D
All best,

David