[Zope] DTML in Zope 2 vs Zope 3

Thu May 26 19:52:17 EDT 2005

I agree,

I find DTML great and soooo simple and clear. I wonder why Zopeheads
hate this so much!

Remy

On 5/26/05, Jonathan Cyr <cyrj at cyr.info> wrote:
> I use DTML alot, I also code all my HTML/CSS by hand for control sake.  If
> you use a Dreamweaver, et al, DTML requires tool tweaking, if it works at
> all.  If you read HTML, and are aware of all of the browser quirks, DTML is
> quick and easy...   New tags are easy, they stand out and quite common...
> ASP, PHP, Cold Fusion and more... and I found DTML to be a nicely thought
> out tagging extension of HTML.
> 
> I keep my display logic in DTML and do scripting in PythonScripts.  I never
> had a great reason to get into ZPT, it didn't add any value for me with my
> HTML background.  Probably the 90/10 split as well.
> 
> DTML works fine in Homesite.  Never cared for the WYSIWIG tools.
> 
> Two Cents,
> 
> -Jon
> cyrj at cyr.info
> 
> Greg Fischer wrote:
> I am just curious, why is DTML not good? It does 9 out of 10 things I
want
> quite easily. From my perspective, I really dont want to learn
new ways of
> doing things if this works. I also have no desire to do
templating. I can
> see the need for it in a large development shop,but
for me, a 1 guy
> operation, I have no desire to complicate things. 
DTML works so easy for
> me.

I do use Python scripts here and there for small and odd things
> that
would be difficult or impossible to do in DTML, but like I said,
that's
> maybe only 10% max of the functionality that I need to provide.
(probably
> 5-6%) Having to move everything in Python is a hassle that I
dont plan on
> doing for a few years. I'll just keep using Zope 2.

I'd also be curious to
> know from all you other developers, what
percentage of tasks that you need
> to perform or functionality you need
to provide can be provided simply with
> DTML? Like for me, I can do
quickly and easily do 90% of what I need in
> DTML.

Is DTML really that much harder to use?

I understand the whole idea
> of separating the logic and the
presentation, and I guess, is that part of
> the reason why DTML is not
as good? But, for me, that separation is more
> complicated. DTML is
easier for me. (partly because I know it)

I dont know,
> DTML and the "everythings an object" concept in Zope are
the very things
> that make Zope so attractive for a small time operator
like me. I hate to
> see them deprecated just because it doesnt work
for the larger companies out
> there. Of course, I may be totally
ignorant about all this, huh?

Anyway,
> starting to ramble... Thanks for any thoughts.
Greg

On 5/26/05, Hugo Ramos
> <ramosh at gmail.com> wrote:

> Yellow,

I have the same feeling... Python should be the primary language
> used
in Zope but let's not just cut the support on DTML leaving
> thousands
out there spinning around and having to go into Python as fast as
> they
can because DTML is not supported anymore.
Changes take time... Getting
> used to Python only in Zope takes time...
and I'm not so sure the employers
> out there are that kind allowing
everybody to take time making the
> move.

Regards
Hugo

On 5/26/05, David H <bluepaul at earthlink.net> wrote:

> Hugo Ramos wrote:

> Yellow,

I think because of lazy people like me that prefer to use DTML in
> a
fast way than go into a deep Python level to get the job done...
I know
> that, eventually, one of these days I'll have to move on to
Python only but
> until that day comes... DTML and a little bit of
Python where needed suits
> me fine! :-)

Regards
Hugo

> Hugo,
I figured as a dtml "wiz" a few years ago. Now I can't image
> doing
w/out python scripts and suddenly DTML gives me a headache. I do
> think
that DTML deserves a Hall of Fame Award but its time to move
> on.

David

> --
Hugo Ramos -
> ramosh at gmail.com
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