[Zope] Re: major problems placing authentication on an extranet site-security flaw?

[michael nt milne]

I take the point that I approached this issue from the wrong standpoint and
apologise for that. This was perhaps born out of a little frustration. I was
never rude though. Also I feel that Plone has usabillity which sits above
it's prettyness. It is a well designed interface graphically but also has
very strong non graphical usability elements.

On 2/10/06, Lennart Regebro <regebro at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 2/10/06, michael nt milne <michael.milne at gmail.com> wrote:
> > I've spoken to many people on various lists and can confirm the feeling
> > about usability on the ZMI etc. You call them 'halfwits'. That puts you
> on
> > rather high ground and this attitude is obviously part of the problem.
>
> 1. By complaining about something that a lot of people do not find any
> problem with, YOU put yourself on a rather high ground compared to the
> people here who both created and use it.
>
> Suggestion: Don't complain about the software that you want help with,
> because it makes the people who wrote it pissed off. Quite simple,
> really.
>
> 2. I have myself held courses in how to use a CMS (EasyPublisher)
> where you did most everything through the ZMI for people with bother
> very little computer experience and a lot, and it was never a big
> usebility problem. That the ZMI has big useability problems is simply
> not true. You also claim that there are lot of people complainng that
> the ZMI has useability problems. Well, we are on all those
> mailing-lists, unless you have found some secret mailing lists for
> people who don't like Zope, so we know that there is in fact NOT a lot
> of complaints about this.
> When you claim that there are loads of people who say so, when there
> obviously isn't undermines your credbility and inclines people to not
> take you seriously.
>
> Suggestion: Don't make up facts and statements that is not true, don't
> invent people that doesn't exist. Don't say that X is generally
> accepted as a fact when it isn't. If you do that, people will call you
> a liar, and you don't want that.
>
> (Oh, and if you want an explanation about why a few people don't find
> the ZMI useable, it's because it's not "pretty", don't have flash
> graphics and such. People often confuse "prettyness" with
> "useability". ZMI is basic and well, ugly. It is however quite
> consistent and useable.)
>
> And the same goes for Zopes access control. It is in no way
> complicated or hard to understand. By starting early in the discussion
> with complaining about it, you just make people pissed off and get the
> discussion running away in the wrong direction.  Don't do that.
>
> > How come Plone's interface is so useable and a delight to work with? How
> was
> > that financed?
>
> Because it's pretty? :-)
>
> --
> Lennart Regebro, Nuxeo     http://www.nuxeo.com/
> CPS Content Management     http://www.cps-project.org/
>



--
Michael
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