[Zope] Catalog aware

[Garito]

Tino Wildenhain escribió:
> Garito wrote:
>> Tino Wildenhain escribió:
>>> Garito wrote:
>>>  
>>>> Tino Wildenhain escribió:
>>>>   
>>>>> Garito wrote:
>>>>> ...
>>>>>  
>>>>>     
>>>>>>>> Sure, but I can't create a new product for every product I'll 
>>>>>>>> use only
>>>>>>>> to do it catalog aware, isn't it?
>>>>>>>>                         
>>>>>>> Yes you can. Why not? I mean you are using them - so you can use
>>>>>>> your products instead as well.
>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>> Yes but what if tomorrow you create a product? need work to 
>>>>>> times: you
>>>>>> first, me later
>>>>>>             
>>>>> Who says you have a use for the product I create? Or if it makes
>>>>> sense to catalog it? If you want a cataloguing framework, why
>>>>> dont you use CMF or something?
>>>>>         
>>>> I want to make every class catalogable only if I point a zcatalog id
>>>> (with self.default_catalog) but If I point it I want to catalogue the
>>>> object
>>>>     
>>>
>>> And what of the object do you want to catalog?
>>> Which kind of indexes do you want it to support?
>>> What kind of questions do you expect your ZCatalog
>>> (hypothetically) answered? Could you give examples?
>>>   
>> Is not important what I want to catalog, for me is important that the 
>> object *was* in the catalog (some catalogs indexes some properties 
>> some others other properties)
>
> Please read the catalog section again: there isnt the object in the 
> catalog!
> Again: The object is _not_ in the catalog.
> Its all about usefull indexes and maybe object metadata.
> So again: _what_ actually do you expect to find?
When I talk about was in the catalog I mean the object is catalogued
I expect to find *the object* in the catalog

For example:

How do you know how many cousins you have? Because you are a catalog 
that catalog the number of cousins you have

Another example: how much skills about computing do you have? Again your 
skills are objects that you need (as a catalog you are) to catalog

Like an entity (a thing, and object) you need to know some data stored 
in your life added to you
>
>>>
>>>  
>>>> Now is a search era, isn't it?
>>>>     
>>>
>>> Yes, search for what and by whom is the question here.
>>>   
>> I don't thing so. The question is who is in the catalog
>>>  
>>>> Use another framework only to do the objects catalogable?
>>>>
>>>> I love simple things
>>>>     
>>>
>>> So why are you trying to make standard zope objects more
>>> complicated? :)
>>>   
>> More complicated? Sure, but I don't understand the cost to make every 
>> object in Zope catalogable. A class and a variable I don't thing is a 
>> big cost
>> And I thing in Zope when I thing in keep it simple
>
> Yes, but its nonsense. You cant do anything more with the objects
> in Zope if they are catalogued.
Are you sure? I can find them!!! Then if I can find them I can count 
them, give to you (even if its don't depend on me, remember your skills 
or your cousins?)

I want to create an object that acts like an entity (like a human or a 
mortage or a paper or a product -that you can sell)

These entity need to know how is it (its properties, its characteristics)

I ask myself if I know myself but I only know about myself all I can 
catalogue
>
>
>>>>>  
>>>>>     
>>>>>> In my opinion (is only an opinion) these is not the best 
>>>>>> situation in a
>>>>>> future
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sorry but is not so acceptable for me
>>>>>>             
>>>>> The point is, it makes no sense to catalog Pagetemplates,
>>>>> Python Scripts, Folders and ZSQL Methods, Mailhosts
>>>>> and Database connections. These are all standard zope
>>>>> objects, yet they make catalogable content only in derived
>>>>> work or when they play together - which is a custom
>>>>> solution anyway. There you can add whatever cataloguing
>>>>> awareness you want.
>>>>>         
>>>> And if I use them dinamically (a user with the role1 use the template
>>>> Ver but a user with the role2 use the template Ver1 for the same
>>>> context)? (I'm not sure if I understand you clear, sorry If I make a
>>>> mistake, please
>>>>     
>>>
>>> This would not be supported by just adding indexing to the standard
>>> objects anyway. You would write a container which supports the bahavior
>>> you want - and while you are at it you can easily add catalogawareness
>>> to that - exactly where and in the way _you_ need it :-)
>>> Individual objects cataloguing themself would get in your way.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Tino Wildenhain
>>>   
>> Yes, I'm creating a specific container that works in a curious way. 
>> In that container I could catalog a Page Template when I'm adding it 
>> but perhaps sometimes I want to track its changes an so on
>>
> Yes, but who should know what _you_ want your objects to do? You cannot
> expect all people (especially the ones writing zope core) to guess
> your needs - you are the one to express your wishes in the form of
> code :-) If you end up having a general solution (like these frameworks
> are) you can share them with others.
>
> Regards
> Tino
I don't expect anyone guess my needs (is for that I need to develop the 
class) :)
I only ask if I can add some super classes to an object when  I create it :)
I know my needs are so particular but I want to create something new 
with a new perspective. If I can the result will be very curious (I 
suppose, I expect even)

I choose Zope because is the most near to my finall result

-- 
Mis Cosas
http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito