[***SPAM*** Score/Req: 04.00/04.00] Re: [Zope] Zope Alternative

[Garito]

Hafeliel escribió:
> My thanks to everyone who took the time to reply.
>
> Here's what I'm hearing:
>
> [1] Many of you agree that the Zope Book is woefully
> incomplete.  Paul, for example, was kind enough to
> point out that the Image class is a descendent of the
> Persistent class.
>
> I opened my Zope Book back up to see how I could have
> missed this, and as I expected, the book doesn't show
> this ancestorage.  In fact, the Persistent class isn't
> listed in Appendix B at all.
>   
Absolute agree with these: if Zope documentation was complete some of us 
don't need to ask at the list but it's dificult to say how to finish it: 
everybody is busy every time
I think the better people to finish the book is the creators themselves
> [2] Some of you felt that it is acceptable that Zope's
> "complete docs" are scattered across the web.  I
> disagree.  The Zope Book should be complete if it's
> going to pretend to be the docs for Zope.
>
> The docs for Python, for example, seem to be complete.
>  You might have to surf around a bit to find an
> example that does what you want, but you don't have to
> dig into the source for Python just to find out what
> methods are available to a given class! That's not
> acceptable IMHO.
>
> [3] Many of you have attacked me personally. 
> <sarcasm> Gee, thanks. </sarcasm>  I am not a troll. 
> A troll is a person who takes only a minute to toss a
> match into dry brush so he can watch the fire break
> out.  I, on the other hand, am trying to create
> something.  I'm investing my time by creating a wiki,
> I'm soliciting advice from people who know more about
> Zope than I do (you guys), I'm writing code, and I'm
> trying to create something better.
>
> By calling me names, you've essentially elevated Zope
> to the stature of a religion and are branding me a
> heretic for daring to question it.  That's not how an
> open source community should work.
>   
Sometimes I'm agree because I read too much times: weird way
Zope was a weird thing when it starts but now has a community with 
people working on it
Weird things today was the standar tomorrow
And is not new some people answerd to the list with a rude comment (you 
could see it in the archives)
> If you do not like the direction I'm headed, then by
> all means, do not follow.  Stick with Zope and enjoy
> it, but I personally think that a light-weight
> alternative that doesn't protect us from doing what we
> want to do would be better.
>
> How big is a Zope install, 20M?  I'm not at my home PC
> at the moment, so I can't check.  I'm betting that all
> the good stuff Zope really needs could fit in 50k. 
> That leaves a 19.95M barrier to entry.  I feel that
> all this overhead is some of what is keeping people
> away from Zope.
>   
I would like a light-weight zope version but not in that way. In my 
opinion I don't integrate some products in the zope core (for example, 
wait, Aj, calm, please, DTML's). Perhaps a more Productic Zope

Perhaps a basic zope with the minium to work and then products
> [4] Many of you hate the wiki.  My apologies.  Rome
> wasn't built in a day.  A good wiki is good because so
> many people contribute to it.  Until more people
> contribute, you can only expect so much.
>
> Perry, I'm sorry you had problems with the wiki
> software.  It seems to work best if you configure IE
> so that it doesn't block cookies from that domain.
>   
If you want to create an alternative zope book, poor. We need a better 
zope book not 2 independent books
There are webs with recipes, we don't need more too
If you want to express your opinion a weblog will be a good way
> [5] Several of you defended Zope by saying that it
> evolved to be the beast that it is.  Frankly, that's a
> terrible reason to live with a mess.  Sometimes it
> takes starting over to get going in the right
> direction.
>
> [6] You're right that I'm totally ignorant about Zope
> 3.  I've never played with it.  I will try to make
> some time for that.  However, my gripes with the
> original Zope is that there is too much.  I really
> just want the Zope basics.  Adding more to Zope will
> not make me happier.
>
> That's why I'm pushing to making it an Apache module. 
> Apache is wildly popular and used in a tremendous
> number of servers.  It already does most everything,
> so why re-invent the wheel?  Let's just add on the few
> missing pieces so we can give developers the tools
> they need to build the rest of the car.
>
> As for me, personally, I'm going to press on making a
> Zope alternative.  I don't mean it as any insult to
> anyone who loves Zope.
>
> A buddy of mine drew some parallels to an SQL product
> he uses.  Someone created an SQL Lite version of it
> for people who don't need all of the SQL's advanced
> features.  By doing so, it was not an insult to those
> who created the SQL program in the first place.  It
> was merely an alternative for projects where the Lite
> version was better suited.
>
> So follow if you dare, help if you'd like, but shout
> your insults at my back.  I see no reason to stick
> around a community that treats me like this when I'm
> only trying to help.
>
>
>  
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-- 
Mis Cosas
http://blogs.sistes.net/Garito