[Zope3-dev] ZopeTop, xul, etc.

[Stephan Richter]

Hi Phillippe,

> It seems there is currently work done on the future UI for zope3. I have
> some questions / comments on this
>
> - Isn't it strange to use html to create a modular user interface? As I
> see it, html is not an UI definition language.

Not at all, since our modularity is defined by Python-based Zope components, 
not HTML components.

> - is there currently active projects to build a fat client interface for
> zope using xul or other technology?

Nope, we started this, but stopped because of the lack of information 
available for XUL. This changed since March and I am thinking about revisting 
this.

> If html is not the right tool for the job, and if xul is really as good
> as it seems :

XUL is actually worse than HTML, since it is s standard that works on exactely 
one browser; HTML is at least a widely accepted format.

> - zope should use an intermediate layer between the core logic /
> datastructures and the UI. This layer could be something like xul

Note needed. Views are the presentation components which create this layer 
between business logic and presentation. Another layer would just convolude 
things.

> - xul is xml, and as such could be "converted" to xhtml. The conversion
> would reduce a lot the usability (you cannot do everything xul does with
> html), but at least there would be a single source of UI definition and
> multiple implementations (simple html, "flashy" dhtml, pure mozilla xul,
> etc...).

Converting XUL to XHTML would be hell. It all works quiet different. What you 
want to achieve is already done by Views.

> - xul can be used directely in mozilla, providing a very powerfull
> client-side interface. I think it can be seen as a rapid interface
> developement tool.

Well, but client-side interfaces behave VERY different than server-side ones. 
Paul Everitt and I spent a lot of time investigating this.

> In short,
>
> zope core -> "html ui"    is not too good
> zope core -> "something" -> html     would be more modular.

currently: logic components -> presentation components (Views/Resources) --> 
html/ftp/soap/xml-rpc ...

which is much better than anything you suggest.

> the "something" could be xul... or wathever, the point is "there must be
> something" :)

There is: Views/Resources

> What do you think?

I think you should spend some time going through Jim's Tutorial and the other 
Component Architecture Docs and learn about it, since it will answer many of 
your questions. Zope 3 is nothing like Zope 2, so knowing the Zope 2 
internals is of no help!

> ps : is it possible to contact the people currently working at the
> infrae sprint (irc?)?

The sprint is over. The mailing list is always the best place to contact 
people.

Regards,
Stephan
-- 
Stephan Richter
CBU Physics & Chemistry (B.S.) / Tufts Physics (Ph.D. student)
Web2k - Web Software Design, Development and Training