[Zope3-Users] need guidance

[Brad Allen]

At 12:52 PM -0700 11/30/05, Duncan McGreggor wrote:
>Do you have a zope2 background? With a background in zope2 and 
>twisted, I found z3 very easy (delightful) to learn. My first z3 
>site was done from scratch, with graphic design, custom 
>user-editable content in under 3 weeks. I was an instant z3 fan.

I did spend some time trying out Zope 2 a couple of years ago, but 
didn't get very far past the basics. That was before I had really 
gotten into Python. What got me interested in Z3 was that our local 
Python user group  (http://www.python.org/dfw) has been recently 
looking at a variety of Python web frameworks. Based on reading parts 
of Stephan Richter's Zope 3 Developer's Guide, I got the impression 
that Zope 3 was the most mature and featureful available. The intros 
to chapters 7 and 8 had some inspiring bits about the kind of 
experience and thinking went into the architecture of Zope 3.

We had some meetings involving getting Zope 3 up and running on 
Ubuntu, the MessageBoard tutorial, etc. After awhile, I realized that 
we really should have started with the Philikon book first (Web 
Component Development with Zope 3), because it spent more time 
explaining the basics (like TAL and METAL, for example). I'm still 
going back and forth between the two books as I continue learning 
Zope 3.

Btw, I found that the cheapest place to buy both Zope 3 books is 
Nerdbooks.com. I'm a bit biased, because Nerdbooks provides a meeting 
space for the DFW Python user's group, and I want to promote 
Nerdbooks as much as possible due to their generosity in hosting user 
groups in the Dallas area, as well as the way they provide an unusual 
combination of a vast technical book selection with the lowest prices 
around (lower than Amazon by a good bit).

As for the easiness and delightfulness of learning Zope 3, that's not 
the general perception in our Python user group, and clearly a big 
part of the Python community is diverted into other frameworks such 
as Django, TurboGears, and TwistedWeb. How to improve the perception 
of Zope 3 could probably be a separate discussion thread unto itself. 
I favor the notion of making a separate Zope 3 site, or at least 
clearing out the old, outdated documentation at the current site. For 
a newbie, it's hard to tell what's current and what's outdated.

At 12:33 PM -0700 11/30/05, Duncan McGreggor wrote:
>As per your other email, the reason you had problems was because 
>your z3 instance was already running. If you are not using ZEO, you 
>need to stop z3 in order to gain access to the ZODB.
>
>Have you seen Benji's quick start guide? In addition to Stephan 
>Richter's book, you ought to read Philipp von Weitershausen's book 
>too. As of zope3.1, it's a little out of date, but only in a few 
>areas. The conceptual explanations and careful, hands-on, 
>examples-based approach is pure gold. His and Stephan's book are the 
>perfect couple ;-)

Actually, I totally missed Benji's "Zope 3 Quick Start Guide" 
(<http://www.benjiyork.com/quick_start/>). I had seen mention of it 
on the list, but I somehow got it mixed up with "Zope 3 in 30 
Minutes" <http://zissue.berlios.de/z3/Zope3In30Minutes.html>.