[Zope3-Users] Re: state of pure Zope 3 CMSs?

[Martin Aspeli]

Hi,

> I wonder what is that state of pure Zope 3 CMSs? - Cubic and z3ecm
> come to mind, see below.

Me too! :)

> I am aware that sytems like *Plone* offer everything you can imagine
> for serious CMS development. But being based on Zope 2 (and just
> slowly moving towards Zope 3 by means of Five) they also carry a lot
> of baggage with them:
> 
> * Say you want to develop a Plone product based on Zope 3 (Five): 
>   You effectively have to master Zope 2, Plone and Zope 3.

To a certain extend that is true. It depends on what you're trying to 
do. Sometimes you can do things almost entirely in a Zope 3 style (at 
least going forward, we are doing this as much as we can for Plone 3 and 
later), other times Zope 3 doesn't make much sense, and other times 
again you have to straddle both platforms.

Better documentation on the patterns is forthcoming, as we figure out 
the details for ourselves.

> * On my debian system (after installation of plone-site)
>   du -h /var/lib/zope2.8/instance/plone-site/Products/
>   gives me: 19M - that's a lot.

Yeah, there are a lot of files in there. Note that a bunch of them are 
from CMF, which offers functionality in some cases at the same 
conceptual level as what Zope 3 offers, and also a lot of that is 
images. It's fairly impossible to compare, though.

> Many portals start out as some small projects and might not need all
> the fancy stuff. Being small in code and therefore easily manageble
> might be more important.

The main reason I develop on top of Plone is that it's already proven to 
support a whole bunch of use cases in the real world that I'd rather not 
have to implement myself. It's often easier to take bits away from Plone 
than to put bits on top of a lower level framework. Often it seems easy 
in the beginning, but the devils are in the details. That is why I'd 
love to see what's been going on with the pure Zope 3 CMS' that solve 
real-world use cases for real users. I'm sure we'd have a lot to learn 
from them as well.

> Besides: if they where solely based on Zope
> 3, adding more stuff to them should be easier anyway (by means of
> adapters e. g.).

Definitely.

> Cubic and z3ecm come to my mind - are there more?

Tiks?

Martin