[Zope3-Users] how to handle Zope maintenance a couple of years from now?

[Christopher Lozinski]

On 9/7/14, 6:56 AM, Milind Khadilkar wrote:
> Hi,
>
>
> I have one large Zope2 (Zope 2.6) project, one large Zope3 (Zope 3.4)
> project, two medium sized Grok projects, one GAE project, allof them
> need to... be redeveloped using ONE single framework.
Any suggestions?

In general the following guidelines apply.  If it is heavily relational
database/ URL dispatch dependent, go with Pyramid. If it is pure file
system python with traversal, go with the simpler Grok.  if you are
doing a lot of TTW work, acquisition and Zope 2 Security interface, then
your best option is Zopache on top of Grok.  Of course real world
situations are not so clear.  An informed choice would take the
following factors into account. 

How many lines of code/classes are there in each application?  What
security model are you using in each case? View based or traversal
based?  Do you need the Zope 2 user interface for configuring security?
How much code is done Through The Web, (TTW), and how much on the files
system.   Are you using Acquisition?  For TTW code, which classes are
you using?   DTML? Zclasses?  How is the GAE application architected? 
Is it even Zope compatible, or is it a relational database and URL
dispatch kind of application?

Given the answers to those questions, it should be quite clear what your
best strategy will be. 

My first choice (mainly because I have a complex Zope3 project to
redevelop) would be Bluebream, even if it means using ZCML 

If you are going to start with BlueBream, better to start with the
ZTFY.org.  and wiki.ztfy,org.  I wrote most of that wiki.  It is a much
more modern and up to date than the most recent bluebream distribution.

Better yet, hire Thierry the author of ZTFY.  Let him work from Paris. 
He indicated that his current project is coming to an end.   My highest
respect for that man and all he has accomplished.  His tech support was
brilliant.    I kid you not, he would be at lest 10 times more
productive than any Indian developer you might hire and try to train. It
would take a few years to train someone to replace him.    The man
thinks in Interfaces.  

So ZTFY is better than BlueBream.  But using Grok is better than
straight ZTFY.  Why?

While you and Thierry have had good experience with ZCML, let me assure
you I have tried bluebream, ZTFY, and Grok, and Grok is way way easier. 
Ask anyone who has done both approaches.  ChrisM the author of Pyramid
wrote an excellent analysis of the difficulty with ZCML in the top part
of defense of Pyramid
http://docs.pylonsproject.org/docs/pyramid/en/latest/designdefense.html

Do read it.  Particularly in your case, where you talk about hiring new
developers and training them.  Grok hugely simplifies application
configuration.  It feels just like writing regular python code.   And
reducing the conceptual burden on new developers is a huge issue in this
Zope world.  Of course if you go with a senior developer like Thierry,
then starting with ZTFY is acceptable.   Although I would argue that
even seasoned zope developers would be more productive in Grok. 

Now what about your Zope 2 application?

You said your largest application is the Zope 2 application.  Are you
using acquisition?  Lots of TTW stuff?  Clicking on tables to define
security.  Then Zopache.com with Grok is the tool for you.    Zopache is
the cultural inheritor of those software approaches.

Anyhow I was quite serious about my questions at the top of this email. 
A bit more information about your applications and how they are
architected would help enormously in figuring out what you should be doing.
 
 
Hope that helps. 
Chris

















 
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