Here are a list of things I have seen that you may mean when you say "Zope 3". I'm sure I missed several: 1. Whatever is included in the Zope 3 tgz that you download. 2. All the packages included in the Zope 3 KGS. (Should be the same as 1, if I understand correctly.) 3. 1 or 2 minus the ZMI. 4. The zope.app.publication publisher. 5. A loose set of packages starting with zope.*, zc.* and z3c.* 6. A strictly defined (by the Zope Toolkit KGS) set of packages starting with zope.*, zc.* and z3c.* that is central and common to Zope 3 in the sense of 1 or 2, and also Grok and Zope 2. 7. Technologies that you use when you develop with the packages in 5 and 6. I propose that the name Zope 3 applies *only* to 1 and 2. If future versions of 1 or 2 gets released without the ZMI (as discussed in other threads), then of course 1, 2 and 3 is the same. Opinions? -- Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok http://regebro.wordpress.com/ +33 661 58 14 64