Ok I'm going over most of the ZPatterns stuff again. It seems simple enough. Yet I can't seem to put a specialist and a dataskin based ZClass in a product folder and get them to do anything persistently. I've been through all of the tutorials and can't seem to get anything to click. You know things like do I create and call a trigger or the propertysheet. When I create the methods inside the specialist I can't access the DataSkin ZClass. I have it setup as the storage class. Is it alright to post these kinds of questions here? Also on the note of subjects and Gen-spec. It seems most of the stuff for Zope like the PTK and ZODB stuff I see is class based and not whole/part patterns stuff. How about a simple Diagram from those that understand it in Coad OOA terms. I know that there is one already but how about in terms of the very basic objects like a folder, specialist, and Zclass. Thanks, Jimbo Get your Free E-mail at http://tacoma.zzn.com ____________________________________________________________ Get your own Web-Based E-mail Service at http://www.zzn.com