Ty Sarna wrote:
In article <395A0742.4BDD8599@nipltd.com>, Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com> wrote:
1. Too much jargon... by far... Lots of complicated words that are meanlingless to the layman and don't help to convey the concepts. This
Can you point out some examples of which ones you think are especially bad?
Just everything in general... ;-) The Glossary Wiki I mentioned would help lots... ...also, can you send the list a copy of your recommended books in this area?
Naming has been a struggle. It's hard to come up with descriptive names for these things. Part of the confusion is that some things have been renamed in an effort to make the meanings clearer in the long term. But short term, it's confusing and it seems like there are lots of new concepts, when in fact there are just several names for the same concept (Implementor -> Specialist, Rack-mountable -> DataSkin, etc).
I know, hence the glossary suggestion :-)
I'll also admit that Rack-mountable was a clearer name, but it was no longer accurate. We tend to err on the side of a name that doesn't clearly describe something instead of a name that clearly describes something, but describes it *wrong* so that you think you understand something and really don't. ("Well, at least the name tells you that you don't know what it is!", as I've said :-)
Fair enough, but then they really need to be explained for us mortals...
You mention in another post that you feel lots of unnecessary features have been added -- can you give some examples of which ones you feel are extraneous?
Probably me just misreadign the new terms popping up all the time :-)
There has been only one major feature added in ZPatterns 0.4.0, which is the ability to have Rack-mountable-like things that don't live in racks. This is important for PTK-like applications where you don't want to lump everything into one container, but would instead like to have it distributed between member's folders, for example. I think it was worth it.
So do I, I just didn't understand it ;-)
The PlugIns stuff is indeed separate, and is not really a part of ZPatterns as much as it's stuff that we wrote to make ZPatterns and other Zope products easier to write.
Maybe split it into a seperate product then? It might make learning ZPatterns easier since this area won't get dragged into it...
You can pretty much ignore it if you won't be writing python products or working in ZPatterns internals.
I will on the first count, hence the interest. Squishdot PTK is looming ever closer now...
0.3.0 is pretty stable, I think. 0.4.0 alphas have been buggy. But they *are* alphas, after all. You were warned :^)
Any idea on a beta or final release schedule?
What, you want something that's *not* based on any theory, just random ideas? :^)
No, but maybe the percieved pretentiousness upsets some people?
As someone who used Zope for quite a while before it was even called that, and spent much time banging my head against the wall, I'm guessing I have a pretty good idea of how you feel. I've gained a new sympathy for DC.
heh ;-)
and it's hard to find time right now to work on things in ZPatterns that don't directly affect our paid work. (Much the same situation DC is in a lot of the time, I suspect).
Maybe try and leverage the community liek DC too? How about a ZPatterns fishbowl? *grin*
So, in summary, please bear with us.
...will do, keep up the great work, we may bitch now but will probably aprpeciate it in the long run :-) cheers, Chris