Hi! Wow, this is the first time I have more zope-dev mails in my inbox than from the "main" list (and I'm very happy that all this stays on one list). What I have seen from ZC up til now seems like they disclose practically everything but their client base, ok and maybe plans for a commercial Zope product (I count two now that have been dropped, this does not include Zope itself). Efforts have been made to separate the "geeks" from the "tie-fighters" (.org/.com), but I can't see any negative side-effects for the development of Zope itself. Maybe "not yet", but, and this goes out to Mr O'Brien: It needs two to tango. Fair enough. ZC knows that, and especially Paul Everitt has pointed out more than once the dedication that ZC has towards "the community". I want to thank Zope Corporation for everything that's been done up til now. This is the kind of track I will stay on. I see this working. Whatever parts of Zope don't work as expected, I don't know in how far I could ever put blame about that on ZC. These guys are more open to new ideas, efforts from the community and mutual benefits than anyone else I have met (in my short life, ok granted). Akm's worries and complaints are legitimate (and he has already corrected his language), and I see people reacting _immediately_. What more can you expect? In my opinion it was just a contretemps that priorities in the User API were set differently than expected from someone who dedicates a hell of a lot of time to that field of development. My personal opinion is that ZC should give akm a CVS account and let him put some elaborate changes to the user api for 2.5, apparently he knows exactly what he's doing. "Dude": Do it better and _then_ complain. ZC's not yo mama, feeding you software with a spoon. It looks like you're spilling it all, anyway. Take a look at the ZPL, take a look at the Public CVS, the Wikis, the fishbowls, the open-sourced literature, and then think again. "Closure of code / internals" is not an arguable point when it comes to Zope, that's just being paranoid. You are welcome to take from the community, you are welcome to contribute to the community, you are welcome to make money with Zope. It's all there. Closure of code is not what will separate the wheat from the chaff, business-wise. Couldn't-resisting-ly yours, Danny