It may be me - it often is - especially since no one else seems to have reported this ? I'm playing with a zclass on zope2a3 (sunos5.2, using zserver/zodb2). It needs to store and get itself, so it uses some zsql methods. Attempting to access the "define permissions" management tab for any of the zsql methods in the methods screen gives :- <H2>Zope Error</H2> <P>Zope has encountered an error while publishing this resource. </P> <P><STRONG>exceptions.ValueError</STRONG></P> Sorry, a Zope error occurred.<p> Traceback (innermost last): File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 256, in publish_module File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 161, in publish File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/mapply.py, line 154, in mapply (Object: manage_access) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/ZPublisher/Publish.py, line 98, in call_object (Object: manage_access) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/AccessControl/Role.py, line 222, in manage_access (Object: addlec) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/App/special_dtml.py, line 120, in __call__ (Object: methodAccess) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_String.py, line 514, in __call__ (Object: methodAccess) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_With.py, line 148, in render (Object: _(valid=classDefinedAndInheritedPermissions())) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/DocumentTemplate/DT_In.py, line 628, in renderwob (Object: manage_getPermissionMapping) File /usr/local/usr/rossl/Zope2a3/lib/python/ZClasses/Method.py, line 293, in manage_getPermissionMapping ValueError: unpack tuple of wrong size External methods don't even appear to have a Define Permissions tab (but they're accessible to users so that seems reasonable...) I've also noticed that while working on methods, clicking on the "propertysheets" part of a path shown near the top of screen (eg as Common Instance Property Sheet at /Control_Panel / Products / SMPLecture / lecture / propertysheets / common / Lecturedata sends me off into the help frames - maybe bobo knows I need all the help I can get. -- Dr Ross Lazarus Associate Professor and Sub-Dean for Information Technology Faculty of Medicine, Room 126A, A27, University of Sydney, Camperdown, NSW 2006, Australia Tel: (+61 2) 93514429 Mobile: +61414872482 Fax: (+61 2) 93516646 Email: rossl@med.usyd.edu.au http://www.health.usyd.edu.au/people/rossl.htm