Tres Seaver wrote:
- - The docs are intended primarily for folks who want to install and run Zope, rather than hack on it.
Says who? The last comment I had on those docs was from Marius when he had to go back to a Zope 2 project and wanted to make it buildout based. I've also used those docs myself when doing upgrades to Zope 2.12 (one of the reasons I did all the work on them!)
- - zc.buildout is *super* heavyweight compared to virtualenv
A point of view, I don't happeen to agree, especially for the simple case of an instance... virtualenv doesn't fit my brain, buildout does. I'd hazard a guess that people still interested in Zope 2 might fall into that category too...
- - zc.buildout creates an environment which is puzzling as hell for anybody who hasn't already drunk the koolaid ('parts'? 'eggs'? WTF?)
...or not. bin/zopectl ...which is what you've done in Zope instances for years now... having to guess where to find zopectl in a virtual env is not something that comes naturally to all of us...
- - virtualenv, or something damn near it, is likely to land in Python itself.
I don't think that discussion is anywhere near done yet ;-)
- - Nearly anybody else in the Python world is more likely to be familiar with the virtualenv stuff than with buildout.
Not 100% on that either, buildout has been active service in the Django community, and for all I know, elsewhere too..
- - We have two alternate zc.buildout scenarios (install Zope + run mkzopeinstance vs. self-contained environment).
Yes, I'm much more for the latter, but when I tried to make that "the only way", someone whined, so I tried to stay neutral...
run buildout to update the software (heaven help you if you forget to configure the index properly!).
How is that any different from the virtual env route?!
The second leaves you without the annotated config file, a *major* faux pas.
If someone wants to knock up a paster template, go right ahead. Myself, I'm not that fussed. I always trim away all the default values and commentary from my zope.conf anyway, since I know where to find the skeleton (wouldn't it be great if that figured in the Zope 2 docs where it belongs, since it really is documentation) and I like short config files that say what *is* actually configured rather than what *might* be a default value...
I plan to merge that branch to the 2.12 branch and the trunk, assuming no further objections.
Well, maybe wait to see what other people think. The above is obviously my personal view, but I'd be surprised if I was the only person who had that view... Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Batch Processing & Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk