Yikes, it was pointed out to me that I typed "amk" instead of "akm". Though I knew it was Andrew Milton and not Andrew Kuchling, I mixed up the letters. (In fact, as I was typing it, I was thinking "wow, that looks like Andrew Kuchling's monogram.") --Paul Paul Everitt wrote:
Whew, that email (and the preceding one in the thread) is quite a whopper. In substance, amk raises some pretty serious issues that we need to come to grips with very quickly.
I don't have enough information to respond right now, but trust that we'll get a good response back today.
Neo-moderator note: if the discussion _does_ start over here, everyone is advised to leave the anger at the door. Problems like this can usually be solved pretty easily by direct communication and open minds.
--Paul
Dario Lopez-Kästen wrote:
I thought this might be intresting for discussion on zope-dev as well...
/dario
----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <akm@theinternet.com.au> To: "Andrew Kenneth Milton" <akm@theinternet.com.au> Cc: <exuserfolder-devel@sourceforge.net> Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 8:45 AM Subject: Re: [Exuserfolder-devel] Zope 2.5b1 release
It has been pointed out that perhaps the dripping sarcasm drowned out the acutal points of the email, sorry I was particularly pissed off at how half-assed it all was.
If you are writing a product that needs to create a user, you go look in User.py and find out what the API since that tends to be the only place the API is documented.
If you look at how UserFolder is implemented;
a) The change to manage_* seems to be completely arbitrary, since we already had _do* methods that meant you didn't have to call manage_users with fake submit buttons. So what is the point of having manage_ ?
b) manage_* methods usually indicate web callable methods, which these clearly aren't (no docstring, no REQUEST parameter). In fact they don't return a status at all, so they seem to doubly useless.
c) If it's an internal API for applications then the methods should probably be protected by being prefixed with an _ to indicate they're not for calling from the web or from within Documents/Templates.
d) Even if you conformed to the API by calling e.g. manage_addUser() this seemed to be incorrect, since it didn't do things like encrypt the password. This meant you would have to either a) encrypt the password yourself (*very bad for XUF*), or b) call _addUser() which is not part of a defined API but looks like it should be (i.e. manage_addUser and _addUser seem to be reversed in functionality).
ii) This is compounded by the fact you would have to query the UserFolder itself to find out if you should be encrypting passwords (what no UserFolder capability API?).
e) s/_do/manage_/ doesn't constitute a new API. It's just the old one with the names changed.
f) We've done a lot of work to make a flexible UF product that is I18Ned (well -able), and they still use the value of the submit button. I would have expected to see an alternative manage_users called from the ZMI that behaved much better, with manage_users calls raising warnings.
g) Someone got paid to do it, and that just pisses me off, given the quality of the stuff we release for free (and I'm still looking for a job btw d8). We're not perfect, the 0.10.1 release shows that, but, at least we spent more than three minutes including thinking time on it, and I at least try not to change things just for the sake of it.
Anyway. In case you were wondering what the previous email meant, there's the actual meaning d8)
-- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068 |akm@theinternet.com.au|
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