Zopsters, This is very out of the blue, but has anyone thought about tackling the 'reference' question by using a phantom Zope object? I don't know nearly enough Python to answer this question, but maybe someone can. Is it possible to create a 'Reference' object that really stores the url of another object and maquerades as the other object's meta_type. Anything that is asked of the 'Reference' object, just get's passed along to the real object in it's place? Obviously whenever you delete an object any 'References' with that object's url stored in them get deleted too(ZCatalog could hold these). Sort of like a reflective mirror. You see the object in the mirror but you aren't actually looking at the object, you are looking at the mirror. A ZMirror. All my best, -- Jason Spisak 444@hiretechs.com