Martin Aspeli wrote:
Unless Utopia really exists I think developers all have their own thoughts about setting up their development environment.
Maybe. Except if we (the plone core developers) use ploneout then we are all using the same environment, and we duplicate less work.
Same reasoning I had with instancemanager, so I agree. I explicitly made it reasonable easy to set some defaults to have it fit everyone's favourite way of ordering his stuff. Instance in ~/instances/philips by default, but Jean-Paul can set it to a default of ~/Sites/philips, for instance. But even with that level of adaptability-to-individual-taste, not everyone uses it for our zest projects. Rocky not, iirc, for instance. Neither nouri. So: "it duplicates less work" and "we all would have the same environment" are great reasons, but they don't always work :-)
Again most developers are pretty demanding about setting up a development environment. Here at Zest most of us are comfortable with instancemanager.
That's possibly something to do with the fact that you wrote it :)
I'm not saying it isn't great, and there's no reason why people shouldn't use it if it works for them. But zc.buildout predates it, seems to be adopted more and more in the Zope 3 world (including people like grok), seems more flexible to me... and I like it. :)
Well, predates it... Theoretically, yes. But in practice it was some internal zope corp tool. I only first noticed it when Jim gave a talk about the new improved egg-using version at 2006's Europython. Later that same day I gave a lightning talk about instancemanager. So at least to my viewpoint, it has the same age. http://vanrees.org/weblog/archive/2006/07/04/jim-fulton-zc-buildout http://vanrees.org/weblog/archive/2006/07/04/europython-lightning-talks
Ultimately, though, it doesn't really matter what people use. However, at the upcoming Amsterdam sprint, I intend to ask people to do this:
$ svn co https://svn.plone.org/svn/plone/ploneout/trunk plone3 $ cd plone3 $ python bootstrap.py $ ./bin/buildout
and they will have a Plone 3 instance to develop from. I won't be helping anyone set up Plone in another way, simply because from previous sprints I know that we waste an awful lot of time on something so simple as getting people to symlinks eggs around (yipes). During Plone 3 development, dealing with two bundles (which meant each review bundle needed two bundles as well) that explicitly check out various eggs was a pain in the ass as well.
Something that automates this is very useful. I started instancemanager for the same reason: to do away with hour-long bughunts just because someone had an old product lying around.
From what I understand, Jean-Paul has an instancemanager configuration that builds a nice plone 3.0 instance from the normal, unmodified bundle with just a few lines of instancemanager configuration.
Just keep the bundle sane and everything should be OK. Either buildout/ploneout or instancemanager can help. The goal is the same. Reinout -- Reinout van Rees r.van.rees @ zestsoftware.nl http://vanrees.org/weblog/ http://zestsoftware.nl/ "Military engineers build missiles. Civil engineers build targets."