Alright, pursuant to Paul's request, I am working on a persistent Counter which will store the counter value internally, rather than in folder properties. It should allow access, assuming I can get this figured out, through the same style tags, but these would specify an id which would map to the Counter object to access, whether for display, increment, or both. But now, I need to know, having 'mixed-in' the Persistence class, when do my attribute assignments write to the DB, and when don't they, and how can I get an internal variable in the persistant class instance that does not get written to the DB? C'mon Paul, if you want this, I have to know! I can't do it any other way, except by making the Counter product inherently dependent on a relational database, and that promises all sorts of ugliness. Somebody please help! Howard C. Shaw III Programmer/SysAdmin St. Thomas High School