Hi!
It would be great to start something like a Zope3 CMS interest group up, to pool all our CMS experience - start collecting requirements, etc. Seems like a mighty large task, though :-)
I've proposed that a couple of times already. There are two problems in real life: 1) "Somebody" has to take care of managing the project. We need at least a web page and a first draft of what we want to accomplish. My idea always was to start with a feature matrix of the current Zope-based and competing systems and then add a wish list of things that we need for Zope 3, based on the existing products' implementations. 2) If politics take over, things will quickly fall apart. I for my part would be happy to work together with people who are currently using Plone, but I'd not want to work on a Plone 3. So the effort should aim at the common grounds all the CMS have, not on the individual philosophies that drive the different projects ...
I'd like to at least have a session on this topic at Europython. Unfortunately I probably won't be there this year.
I know it's said to be slow, but Eclipse has some pretty major momentum behind it... has anyone round here looked at it in detail? I guess it requires you to write loads of Java to produce new plugins :-(
Well, it is becoming some kind of standard. But my personal feeling is that we'd need something fresh that is focussed on Zope. That would make things easier. Whenever I use an IDE that "also talks Python" I am distracted by all the stuff that I'll never really need ... Eclipse can be used as a platform though (and I'm sure one can use Jython a lot to make things easier for Pythonists). I personally prefer Qt, but that's not free on Windows, so the target group is a bit more limited than with using a Java-based solution.
I disagree that performance is a problem in Zope 2. With a combination of profiling to eliminate bottlenecks, ZEO, and Squid, Zope hums along beautifully. We are consulting for a company that is in the process of replacing their Java front-end with Zope. They have huge amounts of traffic, and are impressed with Zope's performance compared with their comparable Java system.
I've heard that a couple of times. But let's face it: Of course you can get Zope to deliver partly dynamic pages at high speed and if you use caching you can deliver pages at wire speed, but it will not be nearly as fast as a solution using Java or .NET/C# if we are talking about a lot of two-way traffic and CPU-intensive tasks in the back end, e.g. an online shopping mall, a booking system, or a groupware.
P.S. I don't agree with your pessimistic assessment of CMF, or Plone. They're both good at what they do.
I agree with you that Plone is quite impressive as it is now, but nobody will ever convince me that the CMF => Plone way was the right way to go ... Well, different people, different tastes ;-) Cheers Joachim iuveno AG Joachim Werner _________________ Wittelsbacherstr. 23b 90475 Nürnberg joachim.werner@iuveno-net.de www.iuveno-net.de Tel.: +49 (0) 911/ 9 88 39 84