Fishbowl not problem centered enough
Fishbowl is a great idea but it seems to be that its solution focused rather than problem focus. Perhaps if you had a page that listed all the problems with zope or problems that need to be solved that isn't as easy as it could be with zope. Problems could then be organized according to priority due to severity or strategy, or even voting via the comunity (ala Java bug parade developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/) Then under each problem could be listed the proposals that form solutions to the problem. Of course some solutions may solve many problems and therefore appear more than once. I just see lots of solutions many of which attack some of the same problems and no clear way to get those people comunicating and making informed trade-offs ---- Dylan Jay mailto:djay@avaya.com Avaya Communication Tel: +61 2 9886-8961 Level 3, 123 Epping Road FAX: +61 2 9352 9224 Nth Ryde NSW 2113 Mobile: 0409 606 171 AUSTRALIA
I just see lots of solutions many of which attack some of the same problems and no clear way to get those people comunicating and making informed trade-offs
I think this is a really good point. However, I think the fishbowl should remain the center for solutions. The collector is the center for problems. What I see as missing is a mapping between problems and solutions. I'd love to see what bugs or issues a proposal addresses and I'd like to be able to 'vote' for proposals on that basis. Do other people think this would be a good idea? If so, what would need to be done for it to become a reality? cheers, Chris
----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Withers" <chrisw@nipltd.com> To: "Jay, Dylan" <djay@avaya.com>; <zope-dev@zope.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2001 10:32 PM Subject: Re: [Zope-dev] Fishbowl not problem centered enough
I just see lots of solutions many of which attack some of the same problems and no clear way to get those people comunicating and making informed trade-offs
I think this is a really good point.
However, I think the fishbowl should remain the center for solutions.
The collector is the center for problems.
I kind of see bugs and problems as two different things. Problems are things that Zope doesn't do or doesn't do easily, bugs are faults that stop things working as advertised. Collector is centainly the place for bugs but fishbowl is certainly the place for the reasons people need extensions to zope.
What I see as missing is a mapping between problems and solutions. I'd love to see what bugs or issues a proposal addresses and I'd like to be able to 'vote' for proposals on that basis.
Do other people think this would be a good idea?
If so, what would need to be done for it to become a reality?
I don't think its a hard thing to do. You give each problem a wiki page. You might have to use [blah blah blah] style links if the names get too wordy. You implement a system for placing a vote on a problem page. Every registered user gets just 5 votes. I have some code for this lying around somewhere (uses sql however) Then you have one big page listing all the problems in order of votes. (DC might get more votes maybe). Then each solution gets its own wiki page too. Each solution has a link to the problems it solves. Backlinks from the problem lead to all the possible solutions. Maybe there is scope for voting on the solutions too? Its still the same fishbowl. I'm just suggesting a slight reorganization. since there are too many people trying to solve the same problems without knowing or caring.
cheers,
Chris
"Jay, Dylan" wrote:
Fishbowl is a great idea but it seems to be that its solution focused rather than problem focus. Perhaps if you had a page that listed all the problems with zope or problems that need to be solved that isn't as easy as it could be with zope.
The fishbowl is also "pull" technology, and so it is time-consuming to keep up with the developments. I personally find it to be cumbersome, limiting and not really conducive to actually getting stuff done. The collector currently fulfills the role of a bug list, and to some degree a feature request bin. However, I (and others) find using it for the latter is often a waste of time.
Problems could then be organized according to priority due to severity or strategy, or even voting via the comunity (ala Java bug parade developer.java.sun.com/developer/bugParade/) Then under each problem could be listed the proposals that form solutions to the problem. Of course some solutions may solve many problems and therefore appear more than once.
I agree that a community-centered bug/feature request collector would be beneficial. One that does not rely exclusively on DC's resources. DC just does not have the bandwidth to deal with everyone's needs. I know there has been talk of opening up the Zope CVS to outside contributions, I personally think this is long overdue. In order for a community development forum to really work, this would have to happen.
I just see lots of solutions many of which attack some of the same problems and no clear way to get those people comunicating and making informed trade-offs
This is one of the challenges of open-source development. I think we as a community need to leverage our own technology more to facilitate its further development. And I think that means relying on DC less and therefore decentralizing things more. I know that the folks at DC are thinking seriously about these issues. I would say that unless something is actually done soon about opening the Zope core to outside contributors, they run the serious risk of someone just forking the code to do it for them. I also think that Zope.org itself could greatly benefit from direct outside contribution.
---- Dylan Jay mailto:djay@avaya.com Avaya Communication Tel: +61 2 9886-8961 Level 3, 123 Epping Road FAX: +61 2 9352 9224 Nth Ryde NSW 2113 Mobile: 0409 606 171 AUSTRALIA
-- | Casey Duncan | Kaivo, Inc. | cduncan@kaivo.com `------------------>
participants (4)
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Casey Duncan -
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Dylan Jay -
Jay, Dylan