Note: I'm still using Zope 2.2.5, which is why I'm forced to use __ac_permissions__ and not the new security code in 2.3.x. In the documentation I've found on how __ac_permissions__ works you are supposed to be able to set default roles for a permission in a 3rd tuple. I've tried various things and can never seem to get them to take effect. The acquired permissions always take precedence. The only thing I can think of to do is create a method that I can call to set them using the builtin methods (eg. manage_changePermissions). Has anyone had any sucess with default roles in the __ac_permissions__? If so how, if not what did you do to automatically set default roles for a product? Thanks in advance for any info. -- John Eikenberry [jae@kavi.com] ______________________________________________________________ "A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will deserve neither and lose both." --B. Franklin