Is there a book or a place where I can find: a: a DTML programmer's reference, or an API reference, or a TAL reference which contains ALL the objects and methods available to any of these scripting languages? The Zope Book doesn't have such a reference. What it has is very limited and not for a beginner. For instance, let's say I want to learn about something really basic, like what REQUEST.get does. I've searched the Zope 2nd edition book (searched the most likely 4 chapters where I thought I could find this information) and found nothing. I've searched Google on how to use "REQUEST.get" - nothing again that looks like a reference. I could probably find it mentioned in the cookbook in a snippet, but where's the book that has this BASIC stuff in it, indexed, with examples, along with all the other methods of the REQUEST object; and then all the other callable objects as well? Where is the basic Zope documentation? Don't say "The Zope Book" because that jumps from too-basic to extremely complex within one paragraph, and it is missing a comprehensive object.method reference with syntax and examples. There is a need for two Zope books - one to put the screenshots in (a programmer's reference doesn't need screenshots), for absolute beginners, and one programmer's / scripting reference with objects, methods, syntax, and examples. Maybe even three books, the last being the high-level object-oriented architectural python-related stuff that most people don't need to know to write scripts. <flame> Is it the intention of Zope Corporation to limit the use of Zope, by keeping easily understood and useful documentation away from the masses? It sure seems this way. This is my second or third attempt at learning Zope (without knowing Python - BTW, is that a prerequisite?) and each time I am frustrated by the lack of the type of documentation I can easily find for any other language (PHP, C) or a scripting reference (ASP, Javascript) or application framework (Midgard has excellent API documentation). I am amazed that since Zope is all-powerful, that it has not used to build a site comparable to, say, http://www.php.net/docs.php. The wikis are pathetic compared to other collaborative projectware and portalware (www.xoops.org), axisgroupware.org, dev.4arrow.com (a php-based Zope lookalike, although his documentation sucks REALLY bad). I've never seen a calendar in Zope comparable to something like MS Outlook's calendar, which I've seen in other portalware products. Is Zope not up to the task; or is it that nobody except the developers really know how to explain how it's used; or is it that nobody knows how to write documentation? Is it funding? Hell, if someone just copied the table of contents from the PHP site, and then wrote comprehensive Zope documentation around that, you might solve the Zope documentation deficit. And then you would have more people who understood it and all the benefits that would bring to the community. </flame> How people have learned Zope thus far with the documentation available is beyond me. It must be that I didn't grow up learning OOP in computer science like everyone does these days... -Patrick Price