Robb Shecter wrote:
Hi,
I think I saw somewhere that a new / alternate syntax for Zope/DHTML is being thought about or worked on.
I'm not sure what you are refering to. We've considered for some time allowing something like: <dtml-var a/b> meaning "insert sub-object b of object a". This is a good idea, but we haven't agreed on the semantics of the '/'. Some people assume attribute access. Others expect URL traversal, along the lines of what the publisher does. Others want URL traversal *and* publisher-style calling.
If so, here's something that can give a push in (what I think is) the right direction: There's some dissatisfaction in the Java servlet community re: JSP (JavaServer Pages), and one of the big reasons is the syntax.
This article compares JSP to a competing template language that does things (IMO) much better:
http://www.servlets.com/soapbox/problems-jsp.html
...For me, the syntax of DHTML is the most difficult aspect of Zope, and is reminiscent of JSP.
That's interesting. From a purely syntactic point of view, this paper, favors a perl-style syntax rather than an HTML-style syntax and argue that page designers would find the perl-style syntax easier to understand. For example, the paper argues that: #foreach $isp in $isps { The next name is $isp.Name <br> } is more understandable by web-page designers than: <foreach item="isp" list="isps"> The next name is <jsp:getProperty name="isp" property="name"/> <br> </foreach> I find this hard to swallow. Web-page designer's tools will certainly have less trouble with the latter format than with the former. I certainly prefer: <dtml-in isps> The next name is <dtml-var sequence-item><br> </dtml-in> to either of the above. Leaving out syntactical details, I think the paper makes some interesting points having to do with the basic approach of JSP (and ASP). JSP and ASP are fundamentally, though subtley, different from "template languages", like DTML and the languages discussed in the paper. Template languages are new languages that make calls into an underlying object system. JSP and ASP simply provide a shorthand for embedding print statements into an underlying non-html language. Basically, in rather non-obvious ways, a JSP or ASP developer is *really* programming in Java or some other language, not in an extended for of HTML. Jim -- Jim Fulton mailto:jim@digicool.com Technical Director (888) 344-4332 Python Powered! Digital Creations http://www.digicool.com http://www.python.org Under US Code Title 47, Sec.227(b)(1)(C), Sec.227(a)(2)(B) This email address may not be added to any commercial mail list with out my permission. Violation of my privacy with advertising or SPAM will result in a suit for a MINIMUM of $500 damages/incident, $1500 for repeats.