I actually agree very much with Chris on this DTML vs. ZPT. My experience is this: - ZPT has more advantages that DTML in total - ZPT has disadvantages - DTML is for quick and dirty publishing, ZPT is for more serious longlasting things - DTML is easier to understand for the novice (or is it because ZPT is not?) - A site with DTMLed templates tend to be a big bunch of templates and ZPT seems to be fewer with many more Python Script objects - ZPT is less suited for the little textarea editing - DTML is less suited for Dreamweaver and such which is after all pretty important if we want to get paid for our work. So, conclusion: * ZPT for longer lasting more scalable sites * DTML for quicker things where workflow and stuff like that doesn't matter Peter Oh! One other thing. A clearly negative thing about ZPTs is that it seems more difficult to learn and understand. I.e. the usability of ZPT is worse than DTML and I know that exactly this is something Zope.com does not want happening to Zope. At 13:23 2002-03-01 +0000, Chris Withers wrote:
kosh@aesaeion.com wrote:
Can you call ZPT documents from other ZPT documents and so on without having them pull in headers, footers etc at each step.
Yes
Also how do you deal with user agent detection such that you have a page that changes depending on the requesting agent so that you have one url to x object and x object does not always look the same.
You can have a dynamic macro expansion :-)
Actually I don't think it is broken since I don't see them as the same objects.
Then your thinking is broken ;-)
location. Overall I don't think of a page as a single document I think of it as a collection of objects that each does a job and only that job.
You said that before, and I agree, so how do you handle the case where you haev a table containing other objects? I half the table in the header and half in the footer?
DTML looks to me to fit that concept better then ZPT does.
Look harder!
However now you have defined it as html which is not always the case.
Gimme some other cases where ZPT wouldn't work, go on, I dare ya ;-)
Overall that looks more complex to me then just calling the objects and allowing them to behave as needed.
That's just because you haven't seen it before, I can assure you its a lot simpler...
Actually we have been doing it for a lot more then 6 months now without any problems. Introspection and reflection are not really that magical but they do allow an object to react based on its surroundings.
I agree, but ZPT does not proven intospection or reflection, it just doesn't require them.
How do you select for which user agent that you will be editing the source.
How do you do it using your method?
Overall if you adhere stricly to the DOM and follow the spec to the letter that is not a problem. xhtml 1.0 strict is really not hard and if you use it properly and know how the browsers work you can speed up page drawing and make it easier to develop.
ZPT has no requirement for xhtml 1.0.
Overall I am not happy with any generated code from any application I have seen so far. They are often embarassinly far from the spec and most abuse tables which slows down page rendering.
Have you seen the HTML generated by Squishdot's DTML? ;-)
cheers,
Chris
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