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13 Aug 2002

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There are 25 messages in this issue.
Topics in this digest:
1. Zope Documentation in general
           From: Patrick Price <jprice22@wvu.edu>
      2. Re: Running zope with Python 2.2...
           From: "Andreas Jung"
<andreas@andreas-jung.com>
      3. Re: What is lst[0] ??
           From: Max M <maxm@mxm.dk>
      4. Re: What is lst[0] ??
           From: Nicolas �vrard <nicoe@wanadoo.be>
      5. using a ZCatalog via xmlrpc
           From: Sylvain Th�nault
<Sylvain.Thenault@logilab.fr>
      6. Re: using a ZCatalog via xmlrpc
           From: "Andreas Jung"
<andreas@andreas-jung.com>
      7. StructuredText question
           From: Andreas Kostyrka
<andreas@kostyrka.priv.at>
      8. Vladimir Knobel/Com.Factory is out of the
office.
           From: meckert@comfactory.ch
      9. Re: StructuredText question
           From: "Andreas Jung"
<lists@andreas-jung.com>
     10. Problem with undo
           From: "Josef Meile" <jmeile@hotmail.com>
     11. Re: [Zope-dev] DTML and REQUEST data
changes about to be checked in
           From: Max M <maxm@mxm.dk>
     12. Re[2]: Question regarding exUserFolder
           From: Dmitry Matveev
<matveev@uralfirm.ru>
     13. Re: Problems with list of object references
           From: Sven Rudolph
<rudolph@medical-tribune.de>
     14. Re: [Zope-dev] Coroner's toolkit for zope,
or how to figure out what went wrong.
           From: Jim Fulton <jim@zope.com>
     15. Tutos
           From: Oliver Marx <Oliver@tekk.dk>
     16. Re: Problem with undo
           From: Maik Jablonski
<maik.jablonski@uni-bielefeld.de>
     17. Re: Tutos
           From: "Andreas Jung"
<lists@andreas-jung.com>
     18. Re[2]: Lookinf inside page templates from a
script
           From: Dmitry Matveev
<matveev@uralfirm.ru>
     19. Re: Problem with undo
           From: Chris Withers <chrisw@nipltd.com>
     20. Re: Problems with list of object references
           From: Stefan H. Holek <stefan@epy.co.at>
     21. need to make zope accessable from only two
different IP-Addresses
           From: Manuel Hendel <zope@hendel.net>
     22. RE: Tutos
           From: "Oliver Marx" <oliver@tekk.dk>
     23. Re: need to make zope accessable from only
two different IP-Addresses
           From: "Andreas Jung"
<lists@andreas-jung.com>
     24. Re: Problem with undo
           From: Jens Vagelpohl <jens@zope.com>
     25. Re: Tutos
           From: Maik Jablonski
<maik.jablonski@uni-bielefeld.de>
________________________________________________________________________
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________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 1
   Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2002 00:43:55 -0400
   From: Patrick Price <jprice22@wvu.edu>
Subject: Zope Documentation in general
Here's my general take on spending about a week
looking for good Zope 
documention  (from a newbie perspective)...Pardon me
if this is too obvious.
I'm finding that Zope documentation  has these
common problems:
I finally found the How-To's by a roundabout route -
I would search 
Google for "Zope" and my subject, then I'd find
these wonderful 
How-To's, but, they all seemed to be owned by
separate authors and there 
were no links from each How-To back to a master
table of contents, nor 
an index.   Each page was by itself and had no hooks
to any other 
documentation.  It seemed in every case I was at the
end of the 
documentation line.  I didn't know where the "master
list" of these 
things were.    Eventually I came to find the Docs
link on the Zope.org 
site.
Then I found that the "basic" how-to's which applied
to me are sometimes 
old and thus hard to find (initially).  I found that
by going to Docs, 
All How-To's, then setting the Batch Size box to the
total # of entries, 
I could scroll to the bottom of the entire list and
start finding the 
stuff I wanted  to read, like:
Gotchas for Zope Beginners 2000/10/16 jens
 Zope Installation Choices 2000/08/24 guy_davis
 Z Catalog Tutorial 2000/10/16 Amos
The DTML Name Space How-To 2000/10/16 michel
Getting Started With DTML Scripting 2000/10/16 Pam
You get the idea... notice the dates on these. 
Unfortunately for this 
layout, the how-to's get more complex as time
passes.  So as a  new Zope 
user, I initially see a bunch of high-level stuff at
the top which 
usually isn't basic information.  Almost enough to
make me give up 
because I spend all my time searching for
documentation relevant to my 
skill level.   I have to dig  to find the "good
newbie stuff" at the 
bottom.  This makes sense in terms of "starting at
the bottom" for new 
people, and allows people more versed in the product
to "find the 
latest" at the top, however the ordering as it is,
is "static", 
appealing to one mindset.  It is limiting.  Perhaps
rating systems and 
voting on the most popular/helpful documents is the
answer?
The other thing I'd like to mention is that I
haven't yet found an INDEX 
for this stuff - like the kind you'd find in a good
book.  Are there no 
keywords for these documents?  Must I forever be
performing text or 
Google searches on everything?   I come across the
good docs *almost 
always* as a result of someone  making a URL mention
in an email.   It's 
almost a shame that subscribing to a mailing list is
the best way to 
find where the documentation is.  Lists are a good
thing, don't get me 
wrong, but still...not everyone knows the value of
mailing lists, or has 
the time to scan everything.
I'd like to see some sort of knowledge-base
product for Zope 
documentation, something that would open up the Zope
world to me by 
asking  "What level are you?  Beginner?  Well then,
here's what you need 
to be looking at to make you smarter."   "This
How-To rated Beginner." 
or  "Warning: complex subject ahead."
With "rating systems" then I could do the driving,
rather than me having 
to adapt to how someone else decided the documents
should be presented. 
 Maybe then I could avoid wading through the latest
greatest information 
which is often tantalizing but ultimately confusing
for my beginner 
status.
I'm not after slamming Zope.org or the documentation
itself.   I have 
the same problems finding stuff every time I
undertake document 
research.  I just have this feeling that Zope can do
all this and more. 
 Is it already being done?
I propose that a few documentation implementation
standards would go a
=== message truncated ===

=====
Ashok Pandey

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Pandey Ashok