hi paul & everybody else, i suppose one good way to get some improvements to the zope site for "unenlightened" people (meaning those who do not know what it is as opposed to those who do but are grappling with the Zope Zen) is to look at how you yourself approach a website for a product you need information on. a few days ago i found myself trying to find out what exactly sapphire/web is and how it compares to zope. the usual first step is to look for a link on the frontpage saying "Overview" or "What is <product x>?" or "Features", something along those lines. what this link points to is something that is not geared for the techie, it's more like an executive summary. some marketing fluff allowed. ideally this document should give some quick comparisons to other products, which makes it even easier to understand what this item is about. one major point mentioned in this "executive summary" should be what paul hears other industry people talk about when they explain why they are looking at zope now after coming from vignette et al. the control issue. and of course all the other technical niceties that the developers know about, but not joe shmoe, CIO at XYZ corp. one gripe i have with DC's own website at www.digicool.com is the fact that they don't even have a page devoted to their backbone product, just links to www.zope.org, which is more suitable for tinkerers and developers but not for management types evaluating possible alternatives. it needs to contain a similar "executive summary" as the one zope.org should have, with added information about what DC can do using zope. my $.02 :) jens Jens Vagelpohl Systems Administrator Washtenaw Development Council