...works fine for me. They seem to work with each other a lot more easily in zope itself than they do on this list. I don't use a wysiwyg editor, and I nonetheless appreciate ZPT/TAL's intentions and positive qualities for layout, templating, macros and prototyping. I know jack about XML and that doesn't (afaik) hinder my use of ZPT/TAL. DTML is real handy for quick and simple logic stuff. As I crawl up the Python/zope learning curve I'll use Python for non-quick non-simple logic stuff. Practical suggestion for those championing more ZPT/TAL use: Quit burning your cycles on rhetoric here, and get to work documenting and exemplifying it. There are a *whole lot* of howtos, code snippets, examples, etc. in DTML - if someone's struggling to get something done and can find one that works, they probably will. I certainly have. If it were doable and documented in ZPT/TAL and I could find that info, I'd use it. Go to it... John S. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! - Official partner of 2002 FIFA World Cup http://fifaworldcup.yahoo.com