I have been a Zope developer & user for several years. Zope is great and it has had a major impact on my work. All this to say I am an experienced Zope user and supporter. I think the Zope is in major trouble and the Zope.org web site is badly in need of attention. I started using zope in 2001 at Xerox PARC and the helpful and persuasive resources at zope.org were a major factor. Today, zope.org is full of dead links and it very hard to use unless you are already experienced. Getting started with Zope today is harder now than is was, even though the actual software is better. A key factor is that from the zope.org web site it is not clear if the community is healthy or not, and the general impression is that the project is stalled since so many links are dead and defunct (and in fact I am not so sure of the zope community health myself any longer, despite the ongoing zope postings here). In my opinion, making zope.org look healthy and be usable is the MOST important obstacle for the Zope community. I believe this is both a symptom and a cause of disarray in the Zope user/developer community. Zope was always a bit hairy to get into, without saying anything about Plone development or Zope 3, I just want to point out that without a clear simple up-to-date main web site, things are looking really bad. I introduced some zope-based material in an introductory computer science course a few years ago with moderate success, but am starting to doubt it would be appropriate any longer. I am not criticizing the people on this list or the other Zope developers: I have enormous appreciation for what has been built, I just would hate to see is dwindle in vitality and use. Greg ---- Appendix (Examples) Specific evidence (these are just examples): 1) search for something, say "user folder" on zope.org Pages you get are dated 2001, 2000, 2003, .... Let's try link 3 for the extensible user folder (one of the formerly more popular and useful items in the first few listed). Click the "more info link": dead page (Insufficient Privileges) 2) Click "Zope Products" on the sidebar. Most of the listed products are old. 3) "Resources" Sidebar Item. Click "Zope Links". -> Site Error