hi.. i had to work with a commercial CMS for the last two month which had a nice feature: a navigation tree which could be used for creating a site structure. It was basically a list like the <dtml-tree> tag would create, with every entry pointing to a specific page of the website. I was wondering how to emulate something like this in zope, and found it sometimes diffucult: I was just using folders for sitestructure, and then looping through these folders (<dtml-in "REQUEST.PARENTS[-2].objectValues('Folder')"> e.g.) Everything was fine, when i discovered the fact, that i had no control on how this list was returned. Let's imagine a Website with the primary navpoints, "About" "Products" "Support" "Sitemap" in this order. How to force it to this order ?? Or someone might want to add another navpoint, let's say, "Contact", which should go right after "Support". I haven't found a way of doing so. The best thing imo would be to completly separate the navigation from the internal "file system" structure (ok, it's not a true filesystem.. but still..) Are there any solutions out there solving this problem ? Best Regards, Justin Heesemann