Hi all, Going thru the archives of this mail list, I can't help but notice the following 1) There are many zoper who need to use a login form to authenticate users 2) Most do not like http authentication 3) ZPatterns and LoginManager are good solutions, but are not appropiate for new users (compilation required, usersourse required ... &&&& poor documentation. Why can't Zope's default authenication be form based? (cookie based, ZODB based ...) Why do we have to start with HTTP authentication? (can't logout, hard to manipulate) Why does everybody think ZPatterns/LoginManager is always the answer. (simple problem, Tough solution, overkill) Can somebody post a good form based authenication system without using ZPatterns/LoginManager. Mohan.