Hi Jason, First of all, assuming I have decoded it correctly, let me take issue with your subject line - it's not a "POS". Jason Leach wrote:
Are any of these significant detriments with Zope addressed in 2.7 or later?
0. No standard DB support. I don't think ZPoPyDa has been updated since 2001. I'm sure that fills new developers with lots of confidence. Perhaps it works fine, but it's not being improved. Perhaps other DB interfaces are better.
I've never used ZPoPyDa because I'm not a PostgreSQL user. However, I've done extensive work against Firebird using KInterbasDA and SQL Server using mxODBC Zope DA and am very happy with both. My only criticism of the dB tools is that I'd like to see a free (as in beer) ODBC adapter - there is an ADO adapter, but I've not had cause to try it yet.
But then again ZSQL Methods are still ancient and in DTML.
I don't see the problem with DTML - it's v.useful in ZSQL methods, although I use ZPT for markup. I'm not sure what you mean by "ancient".
1. Build in user management. This is stupid. The user management is good for companies of 10 people or so but what good is that to web application or ecomm site? You going to hand add users? The only solid product for this is LDAPUserFolder, the rest should still be in beta.
Well from my PoV, that's simply not true - I'm using SMB authentication against Windows, and it works fine. What do you want to authenticate against?
2. Debugging. This is worse. It is so complicated to debug Products or Zope crap I can't believe it. This is relative to PHP or JSP or ASP; all I have worked with.
Again, I disagree. Admittedly my stuff is fairly simple, but I've recoiled in horror at the complexity and number of choices in JSP, and the general crumminess of ASP.
3. Python Keeping python up to date to use products. Pain in the ass.
You need the right version for what's running under it. I update my Python when I update my Zope, and use products that work with that combination of Zope and Python. Seems logical to me.
4. DTML/ZPT Seems 90% of Products are in DTML yet ZPT seems like the obvious thing to use. Fine, except when you need to tweak a product and then have to learn DTML. PHP is PHP same for the most part with ASP (all VB if you like) or JSP (all java if you like).
Well, ZPT made my head hurt for a long time - but it's very powerful. It's true that it's an issue that so much is still in DTML, but it's hardly a show stopper - take a look at Plone, which is all ZPT. I'm not qualified to comment on PHP, but WRT ASP, that's not true any more either, is it? Unless your aversion to "ancient" lets ASP 2.0 under your radar and you have missed ThisWeeksBigThing.NET! ;-)
Honestly. If I new know what I do about zope I would not recommend it for commercial development. Go with a product that lots of people are using, this way you are ensured that components will be well supported and improved over time. Not dropped because the author has moved on.
Well, I make a living doing commercial development with Zope and Plone, and whilst my RDBMS skills are good (most of my apps are web front ends for RDBMS applications) my Python/Zope/Plone skills are pretty primitive compared to many on this list. I've had to persevere a bit more than a Python coder would, but it has paid off in satisfaction. Your comment about components does not stand up. This business moves fast, and many fall by the wayside, so it's important to be selective about your choice of components - but this would apply in any environment in this business. I'm not sure if you're just venting, or if you want to address some of these issues. If the former, well you've done it. If the latter, you need to go into a bit more depth about what you want to accomplish in Zope and what you are comparing it to. HTH -- Regards, PhilK Email: phil@xfr.co.uk / Voicemail & Facsimile: 07092 070518 "Work as if you lived in the early days of a better nation." - Alasdair Gray