I can't remember who asked this question but here's a possible solution: <dtml-with where-ever_visitor_counter_property_is_stored> <dtml-let newvalue="visitor_counter+1"> <dtml-call "REQUEST.set('visitor_counter', newvalue)"> <dtml-call "manage_editProperties(REQUEST)"> </dtml-let> </dtml-with> Note: of course, the visitor_counter property has already been created beforehand! (type: int set to initial value of 0) I think there's a more sophisticated way to make it but this one works. (You don't have to have manage access) You might want to make checks to determine if it's the same visitor (for that browser session) like normal counters do...anyone care to improve/rewrite the above dtml? -- ----------------------------------------- Kuraiken - Python fanatic. ----------------------------------------- Python. Try it. It'll swallow you whole! -----------------------------------------