hi list, i built a special object in zope, which holds most of its data outside of ZODB (in mySQL) obviously i had to override the _delObject() method, that at deletion of the zope object my external data is deleted too for better control of these special objects i built a special folder, which holds those objects my problem - when my special folder is subfolder of a normal folder, and this normal folder is renamed, the rename method of the above normal folder is triggered but a rename does deletion of the children object and creates a new one that means _my_ delObject() from special folder and special objects is executed and kills my external data )-: v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v def manage_renameObject(self, id, new_id, REQUEST=None): ... ... ob=self._getOb(id) ... ... self._delObject(id) ## this destroys my external data ob = aq_base(ob) ob._setId(new_id) ... ... v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v v the problem seems for me that methods from parent container take actions on their children and children can never distinguish between delete by renaming and real delete a similar problem is cut / copy / paste where i cannot decide if copying my special object (for copy/paste) or doing nothing (for cut/paste) i have no idea how to solve this (without rewriting core zope elements like CopySource, ObjectManager), because i cannot get control over the parent objects from my folder do i heavily misunderstand something ??? can i solve this problem somehow ??? thank you for every input fritz (-:fs)